I recently found this Elgn, the hands and dial appear to be correct.

Congratuolations, you have a major collector's "sleeper"!

With fit, finish, rarity and workmanship that is on a par with the Illinois Bunn 16X series yet impugned at a fraction of it's true collectible value in the P.G.

Thanks Dave, I always considered the 156/162 as a 155/161 on steroids (and 4 more jewels)and I was able to pick this one up for less than the cost of a mid-priced 992B. The case has no brass but one tiny ding that I need to find someone to take care for me. I will send it away for a COA and any service but it will be one of my better watches.

Nice watch, Claude. I collect these sorts of Elgins. As I understand it, the 155/161 hunter/open face model was a size-16 adjusted 17 jewel "lace doily" watch with a single bridge in lieu of the three finger layout of the size-16 adusted non-"lace doily" 21 jewel 156/162 hunter/open model. What made the 155/161s "lace doilies" were fancy damaskened winding wheels. Old catalog listings show that the 155 (and presumably 161) movement sold for $44 when the 156/162s were selling for $100, both high prices in those distant days.

Elgin made some size-16 movements that had both lace doily winding wheels and the three finger bridge, including the Grade 243 adjusted 17j hunter and some of the Grade 270 adjusted 21j open face movements.

I think later Elgin shifted the look (bridge design) so that the 243/246 were closer to the look of the 156/162 but I tend to think the 155/161 has a higher finish than the 243/246. I have all of the lace doiles except for the 246 and they are nice watches but clearly because of the price difference in the same time period the 156/162 were in a league of their own. I was very happy with the price, hopefully I can find the hunter mate sometime in this decade.

In an 1896 ad the 155/161 was $40 vs 156/162 for $80.

Later in 1903 the Oskamp ad the 243/246 grades were $44 vs the 156/162 that sold for $100.

Very nice watch Claude, and a great find....will go very nicely in anyone's collection....

Regards,

Jerry

We need a smiley that drools for watches such as this

Claude-

Everything does look correct on this. I have one with the same exact setup for hands and dial. They are more beautiful in person than pictures show. I don't really collect Elgins, but when I saw the one I bought, I had to have it!

Thanks,

Jared

My 162 is #6469964. It has one feature I find puzzling. Below the small winding wheel engraved 5 positions. The engraving is very neat and was not done by an amateur. I have never seen this before on a first run 162, or on any other 162.

Jerry if your "5 Positions" looks like this then you have a real deal. I have this 348 that really is a 149 converted to a 348, a 341 and a 370 and another full plate 18s that has the same markings, not always in the same place but on the movement that looks like a bit of after thought. All of mine have the same general look and I have no doubt that Elgin put them on. In your case yours might have been on the shelf for a long time since these were a ton of cash in their day. I would not expect your movement to have this marking but if you can post some pictures it would be easy to compare the two.

The engraving on the movement is better than on the picture. Look below the small winding wheel.

Dial.

I have number 6469492. It has no 5 positions markings. may be something they decided to add to later ones in the run.

Jared

Your watch has the dial and hands I would expect for an early run. In your case the owner may have sent it back for service and Elgin after servicing/timing it marked it as being adj for 5p.

Here is the dial and hands on mine. It is a little earlier than Jerry's.

At $100 a pop in 1896 some of these might have sat on a shelf. Normally on the dial you will see the fancy script "Elgin National Watch Co" and that faded into <<Elgin>> with the filigree on each side then you see the more block like Elgin but sometimes it is a little stylized like with the 162. On the early 161/155 17j versions with were still on the very pricy side in 1896 the early runs had the <<Elgin>> with moon hands.

With all the relative value calculators out there I entered $100, 1896 and 2010 for current dollar amount. If you use the "unskilled labor" calculator this was would have cost you $12,600 in 2010 and if you used the "production worker compensation" calculator that value comes out to $20,700. If you looked at the share of GDP wrap it up carefully $93,800, either way it was very costly. I would not venture to say that your watch was sold in a short time after it was produced so if it sat in inventory it would be hard to say what is correct for the dial since the serial number is not a practical way to know when it was actually shipped/sold.

Here is the dial from a 156.

movement from a 246.

dial from 246

Here is the dial of my 14k Roy-cased Elgin 162, SS#8,497,439.

And here is the movement.

Ethan mine is just a few units down the road from yours at 8,497,543 yours looks to be marked 5 Positions also. I will have to take a close up picture of the area around the wind wheels on mine.

Well since I was able to pick up the 162 at a good price I ended up finding the 156 hunter mate for just a bit more but within reason so I will post some pictures of it when I get a chance. It also does not have the "5 Positions" around the wing wheel even though the number is in the 10,xxx.xxx range.

Here are the pictures of my grade 156, needs a better second hand, maybe replace the hour and minute hands for better ones but the movement is mint, with a bit of reflection on the main wheel and a bit of lint on the small wheel that I missed.