I have an opportunity to buy a watchmakers estate and it includes an 18 size Waltham 1892 model open face 23 jewel movement. It is a Vanguard grade, but it is markd "MASCOT". The damaskeening and other features are typical Vanguard and is one acc. to Waltham serial number list. Double sunk railroad arabic numeral dial. It is still in shipping tin and apparently has never been cased. Does anyone know of any signicance to this oddity? I think it was used as a salesman model. Can anyone advise me what I should offer for this (in itself). I hope this is an apprpriate forum for this last question!

William, The "Mascot" naming (Dial, movement or both?) could be an idiosyncratic affectation of Mr. J.J.Hill who gained some notoriety as being the "greatest RR Man who ever lived". In about 1880, J.J. almost froze to death while surveying the Minnesota-Winnipeg route for a combo paddleboat-RR connection from St. Paul. His lead sled dog saved his life by bedding down with him and keeping him warm. He kept that dog for its remaining days as his "Mascot", and also used the dog's name for certain important added features to his life. As this watch is (evidently?) in a Minnesota Watchmaker's estate, and as it was manufactured during J.J.'s Heyday, it may then have some provenance that you can check with the relevant historians at the Minnesota Historical Society.
Personally, I would part with $500.00 for the piece anyway!

My dictionay defines mascot as something that brings good luck, which in this case goes with the "unlucky" 13 (million) serial number. Obviously. There is no significance beyond that. I am wondering if this movement was a sales model, a museum piece, or something else more or less promotional for the Waltham factory itself. FYI- James J. Hill carried an Audemars Piguet split second chronograph with minute repeater pocket watch in 18K gold. It is still in the Hill family.

William, Thanks for the info on J.J., I spent many long hours at the "Hill Farm" in various activities, and after reading his life history and aven more fascinated with the guy. Not suproising about the watch, though, and this is a guy who wrots everything with lead pencils usually worn to a nub. As for the movement, if you get the estate, let me know what you plan to do with the movement.

While searching for some other info. I notice this is the same watch that was talked about over a year ago on this site & it was stated that it had been in a muesum at sometime, search 18 vanguard & you should find the posts.

Tom

Well, I started that particular post and didn't get any good answers back then, either. Guess it ain't gonna happen.

William, I asked where it was signed in my first input.

It is a $300.00 movement, and I would add $50 for the "Mascot" Dial, $100.00 for the "Mascot" movement, and another $100.00 if it is double signed, and $100.00 more if the serial# is actually 13,000,000

So, to answer your question, if it was me, I would be good for anywhere between $300-$650.00 less case.