Can someone please enlighten me? On the dust cover of a Hamilton 914 it is written: Hamilton Quality - Permanent. The mechanism itself, s/n 1870522, was made circa 1920 and is therefore before the Federal banning of the warrantee statement. That in itself is not hugely surprising, but what does it mean? I have a good imagination, so I could guess, but I would rather know. Thanks for your help.

Mark,
Actually, you have posted one of the most complicated questions you can ask about any topic in my opinion.

Some time ago someone ask me to look up the information about this exact question, and I can honestly tell you, that I have read just about everything on record about this issue that can be found, and with each "new find" that gets me to just about the most perfect answer so far, IT CHANGES.

So far I have not been able to pin down any one law that has kept any answer to this issue in force since it started sometime before 1906.
Actually before that! (1900)

Most laws have been changed, or withdrawn or rewritten, only to be stopped, so it is not an easy issue to pin down.

The way I see it today is, that although it was covered, in length, it is actually not a law at all in my opinion, because in the end, it was turned over to each state, and then even they were changed and by the time the 1920's rolled around the Jewelery Industry basically decided that they would use a "Code of Honor" type of deal, to deal with this issue.

Most believe it to be law, but if you search it in depth you will find that after the hype of all the Advertising in the 20's and years of negotiations, and trying to make laws, they really didn't want any, and it was never settled.

Even most of the State laws were wiped off the books when the 1920's rolled around, and so far, I have found that most don't really exist anymore.

Now, if you think this is complicated, you should read about Canada, not their laws, but how they apply to US! Forget it, I won't even go there.

The laws that are in place now, are actually kinda current, and are still subject to each years changes.

The Industry decided that there were a lot of State to State issues with the old "laws" and decided to make up their own rules, and gentlemans agreements. New York was, of course, at the head of that list.

I realize this doean't really answer your question, but it's very complicated.

Yes, I have read what others have written, but I have found where, what they quote, has been changed, so it does not apply any longer, soooo the answer is NO there is no true answer to your question.

Not one I would say is absolute, or For Sure!

I'm still searching and have a huge amount of infromation saved about gold and content and warranty and all of it.

If YOU ever find the answer, let me know. I just hope I don't have a page that changes it. (again)

Mark,

With due respect to Sheila's research, as I read your question, I felt that you were asking what did the word "Permanent" mean on your case. Regardless what the current state of the laws are, something happened around 1924 to cause the case makers to abandon the practice of expressing guarantees in terms of years (or permanent, in your case) and to begin using the standardized form of 14K Gold-Filled and so on.

In your case, my understanding has always been that "permanent" simply meant that your case was warranted by Hamilton to never wear through. Today, we would call it a lifetime warranty. This was probably the highest grade of gold-filled case, as one would expect from Hamilton.

Hope this addresses your question.

Cary

Cary,
Good to know. New one on me. Thanks

In the 1919 Hamilton catalog they use the term "Permanent". In the 1921 catalog they use the terms "Permanently Guaranteed gold filled". In 1923 they are back to the word "Permanent". In the 1924 catalog the word "permanent" is gone in all forms.

Don

Sheila, Cary and Don;
Thanks very much for your replies. I appreciate them all as they have all addressed different facets of my question.

Don, that the case is marked only “Permanent” falls right into Hamilton’s use of the word. That they shifted terminology from “Permanent” to “Permanently Gold Filled” and then back makes me wonder if they changed manufacturers only to return to the original maker.

Thank you, Cary, for mentioning the use of 14 karat gold. The higher karat and the greater quantity of gold explain why the watch feels heavier and has a more silk-like texture. At 80+ years old and in good condition I only wonder what Hamilton meant by “Permanent”. I should look as good.

Sheila, “yes”, you are right – we do not even want to talk about Canadian laws as they applied to American markings. I spent a fortnight pulling my hair out (what little of it I have) over some European hallmarks. I am wondering, however, if the shift away from the gold warrantee marking is not the result of another “gentleman’s agreement”. Everyone needed to comply with a certain standard by a certain date. How they arrived there was their choice, so long as they got there when the deadline occurred. That might explain some of the “dead-end” paths that you have found and the seeming plethora of quality names.

Anyway, thanks to you all – I appreciate your help.

I bet the name Hamilton Quality with the word Permanent, was also to distinquish it from others, because Fay's had a case marked Permanent as early as 1915 too, and with that kind of Gold content, they sure would want people to know it was a Hamilton Quality case for sure. Sorry I forgot to mention that in my last post.

As far as the Gold and Silver Marking Act of Canada, it went into effect on Jan. 1, 1914 and even it repealed the one of 1908, so they did the same thing there as it did here. No wonder it was hard to figure out.

I have so many Trademarks, Hallmarks, Makers Marks, and such, that I'm trying to make my own list with all of them listed together with their references. However I think it may take many years to get all of them from so many sourches in one place.

The Trademarks of the Jewelry and Kindred Trades has the individual State Laws and the Canadian Laws too. Good read.

Thank you for the question about the Hamilton Permanent case, I didn't know about the Hamilton case, and I can add the information about the "Permanent" to what I already have on that name.