Marge and I spent the Memorial Day weekend in Sierra Vista Arizona at some very long time friends. SV is next to Fort Huachuca ("Wha-chew-ka") which is where Predator and etc. flight testing is performed. I was very lucky to visit the site (NO CAMERAS!) and see some of these planes which I had spent some time early on with some structure work, etc. (1991-2).

Marjorie and I both also enjoyed visiting the original (still in service today) Fort Huachuca barracks and Officer's quarters that were originally used to train "Buffalo Soldiers" who were deployed against Indians and Mexican "insurgents" during various skirmishes of the late 19th and early 20Th centuries.

In his "retirement" friend Steve has continued his life long hobby restoring cars . . .

And in conversation he pulled out his "Grandpa's Watch!

Please excuse my "Kitchen Counter" photography, but this watch has a very interesting dial. Steve's Grandpa carried it throughout his 1923-August 07, 1967 career as a conductor with Great Northern Railroad and after as long as he lived. Steve added "Grandpa retired the same day GN took off their last Freight Train Caboose".

Steve told me that his sister has a letter of reprimand from GN for Grandpa's failure to have the watch inspected on time and Steve promised me he will get that for photocopy.

Inside the very nice Illinois first model case back there are about 14 service marks. The watch is a 1923 vintage model 9 movement. The dial is quite unexpected for a RR watch. More when I learn more . . .

So Roman numerals were allowed?

I would not think that Great Northern was not a backwoods podunk railroad but there were some of the bigger railroads similiar in size or larger than GN that were still using 17j adj3p up in the 20's and early 30's. I also think that some railroad lines allowed conductors to use hunter cased watches, depending on the rail line they would specify what the approved watch was and who was required to carry one. People still like to make a one size fits all for the railroad watch standards through the years but as seen with this watch (with some documentation) that clearly Great Nothern allowed a conductor to carry a watch with Roman numerals. The [21-Jewel] watch itself would have passed all RR standards of the time but the Roman numeral dial is the "ringer".

As has been discussed in other threads on this particular topic, it all seemed to be left to the local watch inspector's discretion what was accepted in any particular division, and who was doing the carrying at the time.

Regards! Mark

This Heirloom was passed directly to Steve and the Chain is the only part of it that is added. Steve asked me the same question about the dial and I said the dial was a catalog available dial at that time, but it's approval would probably be an elective thing. The probability that the dial with it's clear signs of age was changed after Grandpa's retirement is very low.

Steve has notified me that he located the letter of reprimand about this watch "missing an inspection", and that will add some real history to this piece.

Dials may not have been as important . . .

another where the only mention of dial is they should have Arabic standard or Marginal MINUTES

The posted rules above usually applied to watches entering into service at the time of the rule being put into place, and other watches already in service were usually grandfathered by the local watch inspector if they met the timing aspects of those rules.

For example, my great grandfather fell in the 'class A' group listed in the 1949 rules as a road foreman of engines on the N&W, but he carried an 18s Elgin his entire railroad career, and it entered service in 1917 or so. It was grandfathered by the local inspector as the rules were change/updated. He carried the watch up until the day he was forced to retire in the late 1950's due to his age (also due to the fact the N&W officially retired steam locomotives from the line in 1959, his services as a steam engine inspector were no longer required).

In this case, this Illinois entered service in 1923, so technically it only had to meet the specific time rules of the GN in 1923.

So, once again the dial would have dodged these 1938 and 1949 dial rules. It states in several places in the 1949 rules 'watches going into service', not 'watches already in service'. Rule 2 is the only mention of watches IN service, and the minimum requirements allowed in terms of jewel count, regulator type, hairspring, and time requirment. No mention of dial type or watch size.

In the 1938 rules it specificially states 'new watches' in rule 5. No mention at all of watches already in service.

So, after all this rambling (again ) I wonder what the dial rule was for the GN in the early 1920's when this watch entered service?

Regards! Mark

Here is the letter of reprimand. Incredible. These guys were serious!

I agree David, from the looks of this reprimand one would not want to 'test' them twice....

First, shame on me....Twice shame on you....

This is a very interesting Topic Dave....Thanks for sharing your 'Memorial' experience....

Best Regards,

Jerry

I gave my friend Steve the link to this discussion and he responded with;

"Very interesting (and civil). I would have never thought that there was such an intense following for timepieces.
My grandfather saved everything. In the older days, fresh veggies and fruit were sold in crates. He painstakingly removed and saved all the nails and slats from the crates. He had neatly stacked mountains of the stuff. Most memorable were some of the tintype pinup photos he kept. My brother took all of those. He also kept every timecard he ever punched neatly stacked in crates in chronological order. He made whiskey in the 20's during prohibition. His special brand (that he sold) was called Holdingford 13. The name was taken from a mile marker on the GNRR. The roundhouse he worked out of for all those years is still there. I visited it two years ago. When they discarded the old windup "half" grandfather clock, Grandpa took it home. I can still remember being down in the basement of his house in St. Cloud and heaing that "tick-tock" coming from that old clock. My brother took that too. I always wanted that clock just for the memories.
Attached is Grandpa's termination letter. BTW, he missed 4 days of work in his career because of a gallstone operation. He kept those too, under the bed in a jar."

Arthur Steindorf, the Conductor at home in 1948 with his Grandson Steve, and (it looks like) in the later 1950's in full uniform. Note his "tools of the trade" watch clip on his shirt and his lantern in the left photo. Steve told me that His Grandpa always had his watch in a special pocket inside his shirt on the left side. You can see the watch "Bulge" there in its specially lined pocket. Given that Minnesota and the northwest regularly experiences -30 Deg. F Winters, life in that Caboose could be cold and the watch needed "Body Temperature".