While at our Nationals in New Orleans,one of my purchases was a cute little pocketwatch.
In fact, I'll give you a description. It's a gold filled Molly Stark Hampden,Hunter case, size 3/0,serial # 1712580, 7 jewels, lever set - 1902, fancy colored (light blue cast) dial, inside cover number is 5356204.

Inside the cover, is a watch case paper which reads: The Dueber Watch Case Manufactoring Co. 14K Special gold-filled watch case.
No: 5356204 (written in red ink)and also reads: has been manufactured with the same case we see and of solid gold filled watch and is guareented to wear for twenty five years.
The Dueber Watch Case Manufacturing Co.
John C. Dueber
Pres.

My question is this. Is it the original paper or a copy? If a copy, how acceptable is this? Should I consider myself lucky to get a copy, if it is that? Actually, it was part of the draw in purchasing the pocketwatch and I dare not remove this paper.

Can you tell me more about pocketwatch case papers? That leads me to pocketwatch papers. Can anyone show pics of both or either?

Your thoughts? Also, more information on this watch would be appreciated!


Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC # 0143979

Stephanie,

The paper you found might remind you of the texture and even the color of paper money. Everything you describe, down to the color of the ink in which the serial number is written conforms to those in my collection and numerous others I have seen. I'd say your case-paper you describe is probably genuine. It is an important part of the documentation process. Nearly all of the older cases had these, but the majority of them are long gone.

In the instance of rare and unusual factory cased watches the case-paper may contain both the case and movement numbers, the date it was cased and timed along with the factory worker's signature. Such documentation can be of immense value. Another style of "case-paper" are those supplied by the watchmaker or jeweler. You are always fortunate to have "papers" with a watch.

You are close on the description of the wording, it is very small. With a 5X loupe I found this is what it actually says in one of mine...

THE DUEBER WATCH CASE MANUFACTURING CO.

THIS WILL CERTIFY THAT

THE ACCOMPANYING 14K SPECIAL GOLD-FILLED WATCH CASE.

No: 4734382 (written in red ink)

Was manufactured by us with the same care as we use
in the manufacture of solid gold watch cases and is
guaranteed to wear for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.

THE DUEBER WATCH CASE
MANUFACTURING CO.
John C. Dueber
Pres't.

In the late 1800s John Dueber who had been making watch cases in Kentucky wanted to set up a company to take on the "watch trust" which were the major manufacturers and distributors who dictated business practices as well as pricing structure to the rest of the industry and the retail trade.

He bought the Hampden Watch Company of Springfield Massachusetts then moved both it and his existing watch-case company to Canton, Ohio which is next to Akron and South of Cleveland in North-Central Ohio.

The operation was quite successful and did pretty well until the late 1920s when it was sold and moved to the Soviet Union.

Today many of those 18-jewel Russian watches you see are actually continuation of what John C. Dueber put together so many generations ago.

Hope this helps.

Lindell

A similar Dueber Case-Paper in a Molly Stark from my collection...

Lindell, do you know WHERE in Kentucky Mr. Dueber was making his cases? I've seen this reference before, but never the actual town he worked in. Being located in Tennessee, it would be interesting to drive up and see if any of his original buildings are still in existance. Thanks. Regards. Mark Cross

NAWCC Member 157508
NAWCC-IHC Member 163

Lindell,

Thanks for the information. And yes, my paper looks very much like yours. I'm thrilled and lucky to I have the original case paper; the only one in my collection unfortunately. I'll treasure it.

I've got an idea for new topic as a result of your response.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Mark,
I believe that the original Dueber Watch Case factory was located in Newport, KY. One of the Dueber case grades was call the "Newport"

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688
IHC #34
http://members.aol.com/stdwatch/

While talking with Lindell I mentioned a 'Case Paper' with a difference that I had seen on Ebay. I had saved a picture of it which I sent to Lindell. He suggested adding it to an older thread to reopen the discussion. Here it is, a Dueber case paper with a Union Label.

I also found that while the 25 year cases were made with the same care as the solid gold ones that did not hold true for the 20 year and lesser grade cases. In the next post I have posted a picture of a 20 year case paper that I date the watch to 1891. Written in pencil on the case paper is Aug. 1893. His database is close on this one!!

Joe

Usually the number on the paper corresponds to the case number--an easy way to tell if it is genuine

Bob

Robert was quicker than I was. Here is the 20 year case paper.

The point of my post was to show that even simple things like case papers have variants. My personal opinion is that if the case paper number and the case number don't match the paper should be removed from the case. However stand alone case papers can be and are collected.

Joe

I have a collection of these that started when I found a tin full of them in a collection I bought. I have added strays but have never pulled one out of a case. These papers were originally included with cases when shipped from the manufacturer so the case# is the one recorded on them.

As Joe points out, there is a wealth of information contained in these simple bits of paper. It is my guess that these papers were usually discarded when the case was fitted to a movement and sold. One interesting bit of history that can be derived from them is a record of the expansion of the factories that made them. For instance, I have three or four from the Boss Co. depicting versions of that factory building over time.

I'd be happy to post some pics if there's interest (I probably will anyway ).
-Cort

There is a good read on Mr. Dueber in my collection that I will post later tonight. Newport was the town in KY as I remember. I am drawn to Dueber because the factory was very close to where I live. Finally I have a new camera so I post tonight. I am suppose to be working now.

Here is a movement paper I ran across. It appears to be attached to a movement shipping tin. Not sure this is the best thread for this image but it ties in with Dueber cases.

Joe

Dueber Co Newport, Ky. card.
-Cort

Newport, Ky. back-

Two more styles of Dueber papers-
-Cort

Here are three different Boss/Keystone papers. They were aquired as strays so putting a date to them is problematic but they do show the expansion of the factory over time.

-alittle later.

#3. A lot later(still just horses and no autos though)
-Cort