...recently acquired this 12S? Illinois 'Penn Special' and can't seem to find any reference to it in Cooksey's guide...any information about it would be appreciated...
The Illinois Encyclopedia by the late Bill Meggers and Roy Ehrhardt lists Serial Numbers 4371001 through 4374000 as 12-Size, Pendant-Set, Open-Face, 17-Jewel, Grade 3, Model 405 watch movements. Here are more details...
"The Grade 405 was Illinois' highest production grade with over 400,000 made. It is of medium quality and is identical in design to the Grade 404 but was assigned a different grade number because (the 405 like yours) was adjusted. Many of the 17-Jewel variation were marked "The Autocrat" and it was frequently used for other private labels as well."
So you're right about the 12-Size and hopefully the additional information is of help as well. If you need a case for your watch movement, be careful as there are more than one version of 12-Size in Illinois watches.
There is increasing interest in 12-Size watches and the "Penn Special" marking on yours should add to its appeal.
Lindell
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
I am away from my notes right now, but this is a marking that is also often seen in the 16 size mid-grade watches.
Illinois also made some watches marked "Pennsylvania Special" for H.M. Jacobson & Co. out of Philadelphia PA. These "Pennsylvania Special"s were generally in the higher grades, and even though you will often read otherwise on eBay I believe are unrelated to these later "Penn Special" marked watches.
I am not sure who the "Penn Special" marking was made for.
Fred
p.s. The Illinois book that Lindell just mentioned is a great one to have Jim, and I recommend keeping an eye out for it (but I do have to say that the original is much much nicer but harder to find than the photocopied reprints). It was published in 1985, so the prices are dated and some of the information has been since expanded by further research, but if you have any interest in Illinois pocket-watches you will love this book.
...thanks Gentlemen all for the info 'et al'...will be alookin' to obtain a copy of the Erhardt/Meggers Illinois reference...meanwhile, here is my Illinois 'Penn Special' 12S '405' movement, now cleaned, now cased...thanks again!!!
So, Fred - you're absolutely right . . I'm confused !! Not being familiar with Illinois PWs - Please, is it a 16s RR or another nice dress-up 12s PW as above ?? Thanks !
Timely Regards,
Posts: 231 | Location: Northern Virginia in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 10, 2004
It is a 16 size, but is a "Penn Special" not a "Pennsylvania Special" as listed. These names represent very different watches made at different points in the company's history, but eBay sellers often confuse the two since the "Pennsylvania Special is generally a quite valuable watch and Shugart's price-guide lists it as such.
Whether seller's honestly do not understand the distinction between the two watches, or if they are trying to take advantage of those buyers that don't can be hard to say. But until the Shugart price-guide more clearly distinguishes these separate watches I expect this sort of thing to continue.
That certainly helps to clear the air . . . even though I can find no mention of the Penn Special in Shugart's for any size other than the 12s . . . perhaps that's why it's called a Guide and not a Bible - huh ??
Timely Regards,
Posts: 231 | Location: Northern Virginia in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 10, 2004
Hmmmm.....Jim's example is marked "adjusted" just above the Illinois-Springfield signature on the movement 
Ooops !! 
My Bad !! - I misread it (twice) 
- Sorry !! 
