Hi all!

I have a question concerning my ~1899 12s 17j grade 192 Elgin watch. I have always liked the script on the dial, but the chip (currently patched) as bugged me. I recently got a private label (Diplomat) with a similar number font, but although it is a superior dial, it lacks the pizzaz of the original.

All the the private label named "Diplomat" watches I have been able to check out were 15j movements from the mid 1920's, with Elgin metal dials. Has anyone seen an earlier use of the name with another grade movement, or an enamel dial?

Thanks for any input.

best, Kevin

Original dial

Diplomat dial

Movement [number: 8137679]

Kevin,

Through a swap meet find, I got sucked in to these beautiful Elgin 12s motor barrel movements.

Through my searches, I'm pretty well convinced that the Old English "Elgin" with the florets either side of "Elgin" is the correct dial for these watches.

The "Fancy Arabic" dials are nice, but a bit modern or fancy for this watch.

I think the antique old timey dial is more correct for these pre1900 models.

Paul,

I agree with your assessment of the dial signature. A while back I was looking at Elgin dials on the bay, and the changeover from the Old English to block font seemed to be in the 1903-5 range. I was still wondering, though about these "art nouveau-ish" fonts with the ones (1's) with the broad bases. I see them on Swiss watches, and American Standard has a version as well. Some 18s Elgin movements have a "nouveauish" script as well. These seem to be in the ~1910-ish range.

I too like these 12s Elgins with the safety barrel. They usually don't go for very much in the 17j and under.

thanks for your input,

best,
Kevin

Kevin, Elgin production records show the grades 191-194 included mostly motor barrel design movements made with 17-23 jeweled movements. Also your grade 192 is an OPEN FACE movement although your pictures suggest that it is in a Hunter case . . . meaning you are best to be on the lookout for an open face dial as described by Paul.

David,

The case is a hinged open-face, so correct for the movement. If I find a double-sunk dial with the fleur-de-lis, I'll grab it. In the 12' and 16s, they are pretty scarce in decent condition. I'll keep the current dial on it, in the mean time. I really like BIG funky numbers.

best,
Kevin