My new addition
Just purchased a Elgin Mdl 8 Gr.412.
Was just wondering why there was so little info on these watches. In the Shugarts there is only mention of a Gr. 412 with a WI. unfortunately mine is not that one. Also it staes that one is freesprung, would the one I purchased be that also ?
This one I have purchase should be the 99th one off of the first run, and with only 3600 made makes it a little scarce.
Any Info on this piece would be appreciated, I do know that it is 21j 3 pos. diamond endstone, and all the regular things, seems to make it a touch better than most ??
Thanks for info,
Bill

The WI version was probably free sprung, the normal version from what I have seen was not. If it has a regulator arm it isn't free sprung. I haven't seen any WI versions of this movement, since there were less than 4K of this movement made that would me the WI version would be rare. These are nice uncommon watches that are reasonably priced (most collectors don't give them a second look) and would be in the same category as a 21J Burlington, or Santa Fe (adjusted to 3 positions which I think both the Burlington and Santa Fe are generally accepted as being adjusted to 3 pos) I have asked the same type of questions but generally since no many people have them the replies are limited and the info on them is just as limited.

Thanks Claude,
and I think you're right, about the limited number of collectors that actually have these.
In the meaghers book these were actually listed as RR grade, but that was prior to 1915, before the number of adj/pos had to be listed seperately.
Anyhhow appears to be a nice well made piece so know I will enjoy it.
Thannks,
Bill

Ehrhardt and Meggers did a reprint on the original Townsend RR guide book and listed the grade 412 in the added price guide section. In the later E&M RR price guide it seems as though they listed the 412WI but I am not sure about the regular version. I know the in the original Townsend RR guide book that Townsend used adjusted 5 positions as a guide even as early as 1905. Some class 1 RR were using 17j,LS,patent regulator,brequet hair spring and adjusted to 3 pos as late as April 49 (C,B&Q) and Santa Fe listed their new regulations in 1921 to mirror what C,B&Q were accepting with the note that the crystal had to be glass and not flexible plastic. So I believe that the grade 412 would have been accepted for RR use in some but not all class 1 railroads, for class 2 and trolley lines I am sure it would have been accepted for some but doubtful for all. It is a nice watch and these are the types of Elgins that I collect, low production 17-21j 16 or 18s that most don't give a second look.