Can those with more knowledge tell me which Balance staffs are hard to purchase/Find? Or Rare as well. I will be getting a manufacture in China to make for me a number of balance staffs next year and thought i would get some rarer ones made up along the way as well. PLus the normal mostly used BS for Elgin,Waltham,Southbend,Illinois. Hamiltons, that is why i am posing the question in here. Also chasing diagrams of the sizes of staffs if possible. Francis.
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
since i have had no replied in here to the post then if some one would like to inform me of the most popular or commonly used Balance Staffs for Elgin, Waltham, Hamilton,Illinois, Seth Thomas,South Bend, Rockford,Columbus,Hampden, E Howard,NY standards, USW Co,... many thanks Francis
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
@ Eugene i can understand where you are coming from. That is why i have gone to a Chinese manufacturer, i have informed them of the tensile and sent them an RFQ for Waltham staff, since i only had a diagram for the Walthams that they could do me a costing. One thing that does come in handy is that i know the Deputy Governor and he can lead me to good manufactures in this province. I have a NOS 1506 coming fron Jon, I have some NOS 12 illinois and Walthams.I would start out with the most wanted Staffs first of all. Any info would be kept for future reference...
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
These staffs were made on machines which have become known as "Swiss Automatic screw Machines" due to the plethora of Swiss Machine Companies who made them for the Armanent and fastener industries after the American developed watchmaking machine designs were "discovered". In fact Browne and Sharpe was (and still is) one of the most prominent manufacturers of these type machines through today.
These machines are essential to assure the consistent precision of balance staffs which have precision tapers, diameters and rivet undercuts toleranced within 0.0001 and 0.0003 inches (0.025-0.075 mm) plus longitudinal details such as step heights and overall lengths that must be maintained within +/- 0.0005-0.001 Inches.
As the China-made mechanical staff and automatic winding wristwatch movements seem to have reasonable quality and sell at retail for under US$20.00 as complete 17-22 Jewel movements, I would expect that some of their parts suppliers might rise to the bait of making pocket watch staffs as well.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Sadly, the "RARE" staffs are those which have very few watches still in existence to repair so an equally very few replacements are ever going to be needed. They are certainly of interest if a China source has the correct CNC autmatic chucker and is willing to set it up for short "programmed" runs of those few which would certainly help a few of us a little bit of the time.
The BIG issue are all the broken staffs needed to repair the more popular watches that many of us still use. The 16s Double Roller Illinois is one example. Few seem to be easily found any more. Then there is the plethora of 18s Waltham, Illinois, Elgin and Hamilton watches which people keep dropping and needing repair.
Some of the "Howard" staffs are shown below from Mr Townsend's book of dimensional sketches of staffs. I have a copy of his book, but they are only a "start" for the range of those we need and use.
A more careful study where we could "chart" the dimensions would be of more help to a maker as we could cover generic types and fit the dimensional into each variation on that theme.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
@ David, thanks for the pics, wow wat a machine. the post of the staff on the howards i have the same for the walthams..... David i realize the mistake i made asking for the rare one to start off, the most popular ones would be the way to first go. Life is a learning curve. Dave could u post the machine to me via DHL LOL.... i showed a mate the pic of the B&S, the smelter he used to work for had some thing like this unit sitting around the corner under cover... We are going to go check it out our selfs. But like most Lathes would take a bit to learn to use. I used to use a Germany milling machine many years back.
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
Does any one have the Same Diag for the Ill 1506? Also would need the most popular or most required ones as well. PLZZZ. I need to get the drawing to the company with measurements as well.. i have Diag on the walthams. Can some one tell me which is the most popular models...
If you are going to produce Illinois staffs, the 12s double roller is quite common (at least from my perspective) and is getting slightly harder to get.
Posts: 1143 | Location: Chicago, Illinois in the USA | Registered: September 05, 2010
@ JIM is this the units u are talking about? This information from a Marshall Catologue. I have looked at the Marshall and the ones listed in 185, the same page u listed and could not find the same numbers....
R8872 144 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-D.R. Pivot .093/2'. . 4 761 5 R8873 145 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-D.R. Pivot .10....47615 R8874 146 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-D.R. Pivot .10..47615 R8880 151 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-S.R. Pivot .11%..47613 R8885 156 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-S.R. Pivot .11 1/2. 47614
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
The only parts book I have is the original Illinois one that is found here. Here is a link to the page 76 the staffs are listed on. The part number is 6901 or 1425. it fits a lot of the Illinois 12s watches that I collect and have repaired,. They are quite common and came in 17,19, and 21 jewel varieties.
After looking at a comparison number chart I found they should be
R8873 145 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-D.R. Pivot .10....47615 R8874 146 12 Htg. and O.F.-S.C.-D.R. Pivot .10..47615
Posts: 1143 | Location: Chicago, Illinois in the USA | Registered: September 05, 2010
@Jim I am going to buy a book which has all the staffs for the Elgins,Hamiltons, Hampden, Illinois,Rockfords, and some others.. they have all the sizes and illistrations, like the one that David put up.... I have Illinois 12's in my own stock. Will check out wat they are.
Posts: 375 | Location: Brisbane in Australia | Registered: January 24, 2010
