Today I went to examine a group of watches. In this group I found a watch that looked like a 950. This watch had nothing on the movement except the word adjusted on the balance cock. That's it. The serial number is 68271 which is supposed to be a 960. It has a gold train and raised gold jewel settings. I have never seen a 960 before, and I have never seen a Hamilton watch without markings on the movement. Is this common or is this a fluke?

did you note if it was a pendant set or a lever set?

the early movements were not fully marked, including these higer grade movements...

i have seen some [and owned one] with markings that were suspected to be a factory 'remark'....

do you have a pic?

the 960 is a 'low' production movement, with the pendant set being 'lower' in production numbers.

this early movement would also have a 'swiss detent' stem if pendant set.... you will see a very small screw near the crown wheel with an arrow around it...
turning this screw releases the winding stem, allowing removal from the case.

The watch is pendant set. I do not have a picture. I made an offer, but I think my chance of getting the watch is slim to none. The dial is in good shape and is marked Hamilton Watch Co. in what I consider to be a small script font.

ok,

the production is estimated at 1918 movements.

no info on how many were marked and how many were unmarked.

dial sounds correct...

is it in a Long [or tall] pendant case?

this was a quality watch in this time frame [1901-1903]

I would call it a tall pendant. The case shows plenty of use, but no brass showing. There are no extra case screw marks showing. This serial number indicates 1898/99. I would guess that this watch is all original. The owner has recorded the original owner of each watch he has. They all came from his and his wife's family.

Jerry,

The grade 960 Hamilton you're looking at, number 68271 shows on the factory records as being from a run of 800 movements numbered 68001-68800 produced from 1901-1905. That puts your example at about 1902. Not being marked as to grade or positions is typical of these early watches. Those markings were not yet required by time inspectors when your watch was built. Some collectors prefer fully marked, others are delighted to just own such a rare watch.

What you're looking at is essentially a 21-jewel version of the 950. It is a premium movement in every respect. As to value, the DIAL alone is a two hundred dollar plus item, that watch is rare and very desirable. My personal advice to you is find a way to buy it. You'll regret passing on it, and waiting to see another one could be a long time coming.

754602 marked "960" and "Five Positions"...

Lindell: I can understand the watch not having a grade number or jewel count, however why did Hamilton not put the company name and location on the movement?

Jerry, here's an example of a completely unmarked 960. I guess they did make them. I have seen them with private label markings also.

http://www.oldwatch.com/Museum/ham960unmarkedmovcu.html

IHC Member 25
IHC Life Member (L6)

Jerry,

Looks like I may have missed the main point of your earlier post. Now I understand what you meant, and yes movements of various manufacturers have been seen with no markings such as you describe and Larry posted. Several makers come to mind.

My belief, and it's pure speculation is that such watch movements were destined originally to be marked as private label and were then not actually sold as such. Back in those days few owners ever looked at the movement, and of course Hamiltons would have been recognized for what they were by any watchmaker or jeweler. They probably figured, no harm done. Now you'll have to decide if that is something that interests you or not.

Question is, what does not being marked do for or against the watch? A 960 is a great watch, and that's what you have here. For me, I want whatever the proper markings might be for the time when it was finished. Private labels never really interested me much, nor do oddities. But that's me.

What do others say?

Lindell

Send em my way

All those unmarked 960,96x,939,938,942,932,970,and even the lowly first run 992,and 990

This is a very old thread but I found it because I bought a 960 today. SN appears to be 50573 but the last digit is covered by a wheel. The important part is that this movement is totally unmarked as well. It only say "Adjusted", but no manufacture, model, grade, nor jewel count. It is Pendant set and is a nice looking watch.

Mike,

Your watch was finished about 1901, which was before grade and number of positions markings were required by time inspection standards. From 1906 onward, those requirements came into effect, so we should expect to see the grade number and the number of positions marked.

Thanks Ed. As you can see, this is very much like Larry Soucheck's 960. No brand, grade, jewel etc. The SN is in a different spot. I would imagine they changed it because it is very difficult to see in the position on my watch, not so on Larry's

My dial has some HL but not too bad considering its age.

Mike, that is a beauty. According to my information your watch should be one of the last of the approximately 210 large pillar plate 960's made. The first small pillar plate version was sn50601 and Hamilton went on to make 1,950 of that version in pendant set.
Have you checked to see if it is still 17 size or if it was modified at some point to fit a normal 16 size case?

Bob

I have not checked yet but will do so tomorrow. i hope it is still "oversized".

Bob, I measured it and it is indeed a large pillar plate movement and case. I suppose this makes it relatively scarce if one is looking for that particular characteristic.