Hello -

Any input would be greatly appreciated

The database says:

Grade: 111-S

Movement Serial Number:1040517
Grade:111-S
Model: 1
Estimated Production Year: 1890
Run Quantity: 90
Size:16s
Jewels:11j
Movement Configuration:Hunting
Movement Finish: Gilt or Nickel
Movement Setting: Lever
Plate: Full Plate
Barrel: Going

Total Runs
5
Total Produced
540
Start Year
1890
End Year
1894

I looked through the fatbook and no mention of 111-S (not too surprised w/ low production #)...

What say you David Abbe??? Sure looks like a 14sz with that half exposed MS barrel

Jon-
Meggers & Ehrhardt also call it a Model 1, and the movement drawing shows the exposed stem, and specifically states "no exposed winding wheels." The book also states the 16s Model 1 is almost identical in appearance to the 14s.
Regards,
Bob

Looking at the pictures in the price guide I would definitely say this is a 14s model 1. The case mounting screws in the guide for the 14s model 1 match perfectly where the pictures of the 16s case mounting screws do not match.

Jon,

I picked up a similar watch last month. They are very interesting. I have not torn mine down yet, but could move it to the front of the line.

The serial numbers on our watches both come back as 16S. And, it looks and feels like a 16S. Now, I'll have to tear it down to take a closer look... because, taking a closer look... mine too matches the 14S line sketches.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...823900387#7823900387

Thanks for the input everyone

Paul - yours looks like a jazzy version w/ the additional jewels, and "adjusted".

Now, to hunt for a balance staff for this one...


Thanks - again

Jon, that is a very rare "honest" 11J movement. The male winding stem has escaped my memory from working on these, but could have been part of the fitment of this to a Jeweler's HC when it was originally sold. I do think it is still a 16s (so to speak).

The CD based Illinois database identifies this as a 16 size 11J model 1 with a total production of 3,150 in 16 runs. Interestingly there is a movement photo which has the same case screw orientation as yours Jon and appears to have a serial number close to yours (hard to read but looks like 10403??). Just to confuse things they also include the Meggers line illustration (#145-2), same as the price guide illustration, which has the other case screw orientation and is identified in Meggers and the guide as a 16 size.
Seems like the answer is to measure the movement to see what size it really is.

Jon here are a couple movements I have..They are a odd size and hard to case..They are classified a 16 size but measure a little over 16 size..(about a 17 size)

Another one..

Very interesting - Gary...

Would you know off the top of your head the balance staff part # (SR)?

The hunter movement from the link that Paul added shows a nickel plate movement posted by Francis. His movement is a hunter version with a standard female winding port, and the two (2) Gary posted as well. Interesting...

Thanks again everyone -

Jon it would take staff #335/6891/47610..These are all the same staff just different numbers..Its the same staff for a 16/or 14 size movement..

Thanks - Gary

Jon here is one I have. Looks just like yours but the Pocket Watch Database says mine is 1 grade 120 HC size 14. But the database says mine is a 7J but mine looks like a 15J. Mine has a busted staff also.Mine also has a nice dial with no hairlines and 3 nice hands. Mine also has a micro reg. I am going to list it in the sale section as a 14s.

Dial

Harry, the database I have says for this one that it is a grade 125, Model 2, size 14, susposedly ony 950 Made in one run during the year 1889.

Cheers,
Bila

I'll go with yours Bila since the source I am looking at says it is a 7J and it looks like 15J to me.
Thanks Mate.

If you thinking about selling it Harry I would be interested as I have the perfect 14s A.W.C.Co Coin silver Hunter case here for it.

Cheers,
Bila

That would look great in a coin case and a A.W.C. case to boot. I have it listed in the "Horological Tools, Parts and Ephemera For Sale or Trade" section.

Harry