Hi Folks

I have the opportunity to purchase an 1899 grade 162 Elgin pw. The damaskeening on the movement is magnificent. It has a screw on front bezel, swing out movement, solid back and is pendant set.

I have looked at couple of examples on the net and the backs on those are ornate whereas the one I have been offered is plain. Also the ones on the net seem to be in conventional OF cases with click on backs.

The dial of the one I am looking at is plainer than those seen on the net but is still double sunk and looks more like an Illinois dial of WWI error.

However the two on the net are slightly older at 1897 & 1898.

As they are reasonably uncommon with only 4000 made, would one assume that there weren't many case/ dial versions?

My questions are:
(1) Does this sound like it's original case or has it been recased?
(2) Does this sound like it's original dial?
(3) They are called a rr grade but are pendant set not lever set. Are they just called rr grade because of the fact they are 21j and adjusted?

Gordon

Gordon,
Prior to the mid 1920's most US made and many Swiss movements made for the North American market were NOT sold with cases. These movements were made to fit standard sized cases made by a wide vareity of case makers located in the US and Canada. The purchaser selected the movement he wanted and then was shown the cases that the selling jeweler had on hand or could order. He then picked the one he desired and the jeweler would "marry" them together. As long as the case housing your Grade 162 is proper for the time frame and doesn't exhibit any extra screw marks indicating that it once housed another different movement, then it is "correct". Swing ring cases such as yours were popular among railroad men and others that worked in a dusty or dirty envionment, as they tended to be better protected against dust and dirt entering the movement.
As far as being "railroad grade", the Grade 162 wound have passed inspection on many North American railroads during the early years of the 20th Century. We have documentation that Webb C. Ball was allowing (but not recommending) pendant set watches at least as late as 1906.
As for the originality of the dial, the best way to check is to look at what dials were offered by Elgin around the time your movement was made, especially the design of the "Elgin" signature. A jeweler could order a movement with any dial that Elgin offered at the time, so they all do not have to be alike. However, if the dial on yours has a more modern signature or number font than was offered in 1899, the odds are that the dial has been replaced sometime in the last hundred years or so. Dials were often replaced when something hit the crystal and went through and damaged the dial as well. If it was many years after the watch was new, the jeweler would replace the dial with whatever Elgin was making at the time of replacement.
The Elgin Grade 162 is a fine, high quality movement, which, while not rare, was made in limited quantities and makes a fine addition to any collection.

Hi Ed

Thanks for your informed comment. I will bare in mind what you have said and do some more research.

Gordon

Take a look in our photo gallery. I posted pictures of a 162 awhile back. The dial and hands shown are correct for a 162. I own a 162, and a 156 (hunting version) plus some 17J watches in the same series. They are among the stars of my collection. In my opinion, they are overlooked and under valued by most collectors.

Hi Jerry

How do you access the photo gallery?

Gordon

Hi Jerry

I found your post and photos of the 162 on 30/11/2004. However there is only a photo of the back and the movement. There is no photo of the dial. Would it be possible to post a photo of the dial?

Yours is an 1895 whereas the one I am looking at is 1899.

Gordon

Go to photo gallery and click on search or find. type in 162 and you should be able to find my photos which show the deal. The 162 was sold with a double sunk dial and moon hands.

Hi Jerry

Thanks.
The link showing the photo of the dial didn't come up the first time I did a search. However it did the second time.

Gordon