Hello all,

I'm trying to learn a little more about a watch I just received.

It is an Illinois 18S "Miller" grade. What is interesting about this is that it is a KW and SW movement. I know this isn't that unusual but does anybody have an idea or information detailing the time frame of these Miller transitional models. I believe I have seen later serial numbers than mine that were still straight key wind.

Mine is a recase making it a sidewinder but it winds up fine both ways and runs very strong, keeping time within 30 seconds a day at over 130 years old!

How many of these transitional Millers were made ?

Dial as found - no cleaning done

W/ Case

Thanks for looking.

Thats a nice one , I have a model 1 miller on the bench and a model 3 , which is the open face model waiting for a service . The miller was one of the higher grade models , having screw set jewels and being adjusted ( equal to the bunn , I think ) with a grade 106 being the finest in transitional , with nickel plates , fine engraving and a good regulator. I am sort of puzzled as to why they kept the key wind , did they have a lot of extra barrel bridges , or was it to retain a familiar winding mechanism . Jones/Horan has a 105 in this weeks auction.

Thanks Kevin,

I just looked at the 105 on J/H . Even though a bit rough around the edges it is receiving a lot of interest, a very pretty movement for the day and very rare (3 stars ?).

It seems that the Miller grade was a forerunner of that 105. The watch guide doesn't seem to mention transitional movements, that's what made me wonder about the numbers. Is mine a higher or lower production watch? I don't have the Meggers Illinois book. Pocket watch database says 7,000 total production but also does not mention transitionals.

Another thought, should I have this watch serviced COA ? I understand if it is to be used the answer would be yes. But I wonder if there is any value in the original patina that this watch shows, not sure how this works in the watch world. It's a big debate in the classic auto world !

Around 1876 Illinois started making the Miller Grade in "stem-wind" with the key wind capability being left to be able to wind them with a key if desired. This served two purposes; to use up inventory and to be accepted by the consumer who didn't yet appreciate "new fangled" stuff like stem~wind abilities ! These are designated as "transitional" movements and as a Model 2 to differentiate them from the Model 1 key~wind model. The Model 2's used pins to hold the dials to the plates and around 1884 the Model 3's used screws instead of pins to fasten the dial feet. Sometime around 1979 the 4th wheels went from 63 teeth to 70 teeth and thus was born from coarse train to fast train movements. Your watch No. 304818 was born around 1881. From 1880 to mid 1882 the script or Old English "No." before the serial number was used, in mid 1882 the script "No." before the serial number was taken off and no longer used.

Sometimes to use up existing inventory in the 1870-1880's you will find one or some of these things in different watches from Illinois as well as other manufacturers which had the same ideologies. Companies were very competitive and frugal and existing inventory was used whenever possible before new machining was implemented.

regards,
bb

Charles, I would find a nice inexpensive hunter case for that, the miller deserves it. I think you can use either a KW or a SW case? The keywind HC go pretty cheap now days, that's my opinion

That one requires a stem wind case , the cannon pinion is not square to set it , although the one in J/H auction had a square one put on and the setting lever removed to make it an open face , I guess they had a real aversion to a sidewinder . I would think a silver hunter case would put that right . On the subject of cleaning ,clean is paramount to a movement , the case is a different story , to polish or not to polish can fill a page ! I prefer shiny , shiny sells

Thanks Kevin, Buster and Tom, your info, thoughts and opinions matter to me. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a decent 18 size Hunter stem wind case. I don't like to see sidewinder open faces either. I'll do a dial cleaning when I find a case and bring back a bit of dignity to this old classic . Still wondering how many were made like this one.

I use the the Pocket watch database , it is riddled with errors , I had a cd on illinois but cant seem to locate it , to the point - 7000 total , 100 in this run


https://pocketwatchdatabase.co...sult/illinois/304818