I don't have a lot of Waltham grades, a 19j PS 16s Riverside, a 21j 1892 Vanguard and a couple of 12 size dress watches but I wondered when I picked up a 21j 645 for a touch over $120 for a decent watch why they don't seem to be in much demand.

It's hard to collect all brands but it is also hard to pass on a good watch at a good price also. Of the somewhat limited information on these grades but from what I can find they are good grade watches.

Claude, I have restored many 645's, some 19 and some 21 Jewel. They were a very fine watch and paired with the 18s 845, I believe they were purpose made for RR people.

There is more discussion about the 645 here at;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...061072223#5061072223

Both the 845 and 645 are excellent watches and certainly were RR watches. I have a pair of 845 and have been watching for a good 645 to add to my collection. You got a deal on that 645, Claude, but I presume it did not have a 24hr dial which is what I would need.

Enjoy it.

Dave is 100% correct they are fine watches, and they can go for fair prices on fleebay. Plus, the parts are pretty cheap (4860/4861 balance staffs are around 6$) Claude - would like to see some pictures if you find time. The 845 is my favorite, and an excellent bang for your buck movement when compared to other 18s 21j movements. Also, the Hampden 21j 18s is another one that does not get much love.

This one is in the 22,190,XXX serial number range and the movement appears to be in good to excellent condition, on large wind wheel if you look hard you can see some spotting. The case looks to be brass free and no major wear. The dial is the typical "Waltham" bold DS with square min markers with the typical red 5 min markers that has hairlines and one small chip on the edge that will need repair. The dial should clean up fine after soaking to clean up the dirt in the hairlines and the chip did not affect any markers and should hide well when the bezel is on. I will post pictures when I have it cleaned up.

It arrived and runs well, I cleaned the case and dial and it looks fine but the case is not the best even though it shows little wear since it is a Scepter case. No marks or corrosion on the movement.

I also collect Hampdens since in many ways some more or less treat that brand like these 645s. On the Hampdens I like the later model 5 versions.

Posted pictures and will bump it back up so people can see what it looks like. The dial looks to be original not sure about the hands though.

Claude - nice

Posted a pic of a Crescent 16s 21j. It had hands like the one you pictured. Upgraded to 23j Waltham Vanguard hands. I have a few sets of these hands (hour/minute) if you like...

and the movement

he 645-845's are to me the epitome of RR watchdome from the Waltham Factory. Only a few 645 model 99's were done with "only" 19 Jewels which were probably the best fit and finish 645's of all. I recently scraped in one from eBay that was truly extra fine then restored and "traded it" to my personal stash in place of this nearly as nice an example which then sold this month on eBay for $250.00

Nice detail around the bezel

4860 or 4861 staff? Ha - just kidding...

Did Waltham make more of the 21j compared to the 19j in this model?

Guess the hands are correct based on David's example, so the hands are probably original also.

Jon, The production records from Waltham show about 4,000 19 J 645's as;

15072051 - 3000 . . 950 mvt.
15083001 - 4000 . . 1000 mvt.
15094001 - 5000 . . 1000 mvt. 19 & 21 J "mixed"
15104001 - 4500 . . 500 mvt. 19 & 21 J "mixed"
15134001 - 4500 . . 500 mvt. 19 & 21 J "mixed"

The 21 Jewel 645s were near to 100,000 as they were made through much of the model 1908 period too while the 19 jewel were only produced as Model 1899.

Claude, the hands are original Waltham. The straight Staff Minute Hand is Classic Waltham, sort of like Illinois using Plum color steel hands.

It runs well but could use a COA, I have never had a Scepter case before but the comment I got from more experience people is that it is gold but low K (8-9) and thin. The seller said the back was discolored but I think it was just typical for this case. I cleaned and polished it and could not see any wear through and the detail on the bezel, ring or edge back show little detail loss.

I am almost tempted to put it in a nice silveroid case but I don't see any extra marks so the buyer may have been strapped for cash and spent his money on the movement rather than the case.

It looks good as long as you don't spin off the back and see "Scepter" engraved on the inside of the back.

As a relative newcomer the 645 and its big brother (the 845) immediately caught my eye as a real value for collectors. The 645 seemed well underpriced for its quality...after buying a couple I then had to have the 845. Had to be more patient to find a nice reasonably priced 845. The 19j versions and the similar Riverside look like some of the best values available in the RR days. Great collectables now I believe...won't be bargains forever..

Unfortunately the Walthams seem to be the Rodney Dangerfields of RR watches. They don't get much respect from buyers. Personally I think they are great watches and certainly one of the best values in RR watches. I have a 16 size 21 jewel Crescent St. that will be the last watch I ever sell.

Nice 645 Claude!Of course now you'll need an 845.The 19J lever-set Riversides are also well worth having too,they are higher finish with raised-gold settings and gold center wheel.I have one,and it will do battle with a quartz watch.I carried it daily for years, and about the only time I had to reset it was for daylight savings time!...I think those Scepter cases were about a 5 year case.Happy New Year...Ted.

My 19j pendant set 16s Riverside, I almost feel I should switch dials since this 19j is earlier than the 645

Walthams & Elgins are what I have most of, the Elgins for the damaskeening, and the Walthams for price.
Here are pics of 2 of my 645's one 21j and one 19j, I have to take the dials off to clean the H/l out, but that will come,
Bill

mvmt

21j

21j mvmt

Another one that is unloved and went fairly cheap, this one is in a Waltham factory case 14K JBoss case. Can anyone give me an opinion about the hands correct/not correct?

Claude, This very rare (1 of 2,000) Waltham 5 Adj Model 642 that has the same hands and dial as yours. Mine might be a little older. It is a 1918 S/N 22097163

Thanks David, mine is in the 25M range so it would be a bit newer but not much newer. The fact that all three of the hands on my watch match all three on your watch would make me believe they are correct.

I guess if I had not been asleep at the wheel I would have noticed that they match Bill's watch hands also, yikes guess I need more coffee.

Claude, I must confess after re-examination that the hour hand on mine is probably a replacement as it does not have the correct, "Breguet Bulge" on the arm behind the spade section as yours does.

David I am glad we are not being tested!!! lol

Sometimes it is like those pictures where you have to pick out what is different. At least I feel pretty sure the hands are not hack adds.

Hello everyone. I know that this thread is a year old but this is on subject.
I have recently acquired a couple of Waltham 645's. The first is a 21j model. I cleaned and oiled it and has lost only 3 seconds in the last 48 hours.
The second is a 19j 645. I got it because it is uncommon, and looks to be about the 75th 645 produced. The movement is very clean and the balance wheel moves very well but the roller jewlel is gone!
I'm ok doing some work on my watches but this replacement is beyond me. I don't have the knowledge or the tools. I have a guy who is local but he is a "bunn special man" and was kind of put out when I took him an 845 for repair. Can anyone recommend a repair person that might have the part for this watch?
I have have a Watham 642, serial number 22058788, 17j, LS, OF, Adj 5 Pos that I can post pic of if anyone is interested.
I just sent my dues in for this club. During my research on different watches this one has been the friendliest and alot let "ego". Thank you.

Here are both the 21j and the 19j 645's.

Michael, I could put a roller jewel in your watch.

Welcome aboard Michael,

I too am a fan of the 645 and it's cousin, a model 1899 19J Riverside adj to 5 positions.

Great value and guilt free carry watches.

Have fun, Pault

And the 200,000 mile movement, still keeping excellent time...

I just noticed the "clicks" are different in the various photo's... doesn't seem to be related to whether it's a Riverside or a 645... any wisdom to share here?

Just an observation but it looks like the double tooth click came on board on the later runs.
Ken, if you have the jewel readily available to install I just need contact information so I can get your address and discuss the particulars. Thank