Based on the great reply to my first topic IDing my Getty (Thanks again!), I am going to post my second watch. In particular I am looking for specifics such as model number, number made and so forth. In fact any information helps- (conformation or correction or additional info) Here is what I know at the moment:

Elgin BW Raymond
21J
16s
serial number movement = 29910847 - (1926?)

Fixed bow case inside reads "Cased and timed by Elgin Watch Co" "R.W.Raymond model" Wadsworth Quality 10 Karat Gold Filled" and 7507280

Thanks!
Norm

Here is the face.

Hello Norm,

You have the correct info on the watch so far, I would only add this:

Grade 478 and there were thousands made the exact number I don't have at the present.

The mfg. date of 1926-27 area coinsides with the production date of the case (1927) so I would say this one is more than likely an original combination....

Very nice watch and certainly a collectible...

Thanks for showing us your watch

Regards,

Jerry

Probably after the grade 571 the grade 478 was Elgin's most produced grade. You do see some run variations along the way. The earlier ones have what appear to be a gold train but the later ones lost this feature during the war era. I have a mid run that has the gold center wheel and a later one that is brass and is also marked Temperature around the small wind wheel. The later ones also have the serial number above the BW Raymond engraving. Most of the early and mid runs have the serial number below the 21 Jewels engraving. Very good grade for timekeeping purposes. Mine have the silver hairspring, I think the early runs has the normal blue color hairspring.

The Grade 478 production was 184,500 with 90 separate assigned runs in S/N range 25678001-42372000.

Dave then I think that surpasses the 571 by about 10K then. I should have stipulated RR approved also since the 290/291 and a few other grades topped the 1M mark in production. My later one is from the next to last run of the 478 and I will post some pictures of it to show some other differences you see with this grade.

Here is one from the 33M range with black engraving, silver colored hairspring and the star dial.

Claude, I have three Gr.478's and none of them have a silver colored hairspring, the serial numbers are:
39385160 Ca. 1940 w/ Star Dial
29366143 Ca. 1927
28434930 Ca. 1926

On the other hand, I have four Gr.571's and one Gr.573 and all five have the silver hairsprings....

Do we know when the silver hairspring was introduced and what is the material it is made from versus the earlier Elgin watches....

Regards,

Jerry

I think Elgin dabbled in the exoctic metal for the hair spring about the same time that Hamilton did and went through more than one variation just as Hamilton did with Elinvar and Elinvar Extra. So the ones pictured would be one of the first gyrations since Elginite was not used until around 1942-43.

The higher serial number would be about 1940, both have the star dials, the newer one has the different case that did not show up until the late 30's early 40's and the older one has the typical Elgin "Streamline" case.

The newer one was stuffed in a safe for about 65years so it has not seen much use, the other in about the same condition-seen very little use.

Jerry I think the 472 used Invar hairsprings but I do not know how many Invar type variations there were between the Invar 472's and the Elginite 571's.