A question about the validity of the statement below relating to how the Canadian dial came to be. I came across this relating to a Waltham 24hr dial and had not seen this name before. Any of you guys that know the history of the Cdn 24hr dial care to verify [or not] this...
Thanks

"a Canadian model " Vern Pickersgill dial". Vern Pickersgill was from Winnipeg Manitoba and was in charge of the Western Railroad as a master time keeper and he wanted a dial that was different from the American plain 1-12 Arabic box car number so he had the inner 13-24 Arabic numbers put on the enamel dial and had the 5 minute increments in red put on the outside of the dial to make it easier for multiple time zones as well make the dial exotic in style."

Ralph, I have seen that before as well, however if I remember correctly there was more information. It went on and later refuted the theory. Do you have a link you are able to post.

I am sure the pic below wasn't it's first incarnation but certainly went a long way to tag a dial with "afternoon numbers" as a "Canadian dial"

Instructions

Lorne, the quote and the name above were actually about a fully enamel dial with 1 - 24 on it, not this paper application. I don't think that I have seen reference to that name before thus my question. I'm hoping someone such as Larry B might see this and know if that quote is correct.

The quote is from an item for sale but not on the 'bay.

Ralph, I found the quote you posted and this is the one I read:


A while back, Mr. Peter Kushnir (Master Watchmaker) and Mr. Charles Lock (famous Waltham Watch Collector) told a very interesting true story to a watchmaker in Montreal concerning the Western Canadian Railroad dial. This is what he told me: Back in the early part of this century there was a man called Vern Pickersgill who lived and worked in Winnipeg Manitoba for the CPR railroad. He was in charge of all railroad pocket watches from Manitoba to British Colombia, as was Mr. Peter Kushnir, who was in charge of all Canadian railroad watches from Ontario to Nova Scotia. Apparently, one day in the 1930's, Mr. Pickersgill wanted to have a 24 hour dial which would be different from the American and Eastern Canada as well, so he made the "TRUE" Western Canadian model railroad dial in outer 24 Roman numerals and with an inner 24 hour Arabic. Which is called since the 1930's to this present day the "Pickersgill" Canadian railroad dial.



Either the seller you quoted used some poetic license to suit his own purpose or the above story was repeated several times and the seller is using one of those quotes, I suspect the former.

The reason I posted the letter was to illustrate that the concept of the Canadian 24 hour dial, enamel or otherwise, was in existence much earlier than Mr. Pickersgill, as were actual enamel dials with 13-24 and red 5 min. increments thus negating any attribution to him as the creator.

The portion of the statement "had the 5 minute increments in red put on the outside of the dial to make it easier for multiple time zones" makes no sense to me.

Nice Lorne! Thanks for that info. Certainly helps clarify this dial issue. For sure the 24hr dial precedes the 1930's. And your info would also coincide with Larry B's previous comments that it was common to have non-24hr dials in the east.

The watch movement that is 'attached' to the description I posted above is an 18S, much earlier than the 1930's and it has Arabic 1-24 so it doesn't fit what you found. This particular seller tends to puff the descriptions in my opinion and I think you are right about his poetic license.

So I'm wondering about the 'Pickersgill' dial - from what you found it has to have Arabic/Roman numbering but perhaps not necessarily outer minute markers in red? Was there any other info where you found that comment? And it would presumably only be correct on watches from sometime in the 1930's and also, given the date, only on 16S watches.

Here is a dial from 1906/07 with outer Roman and inner 24 Arabic yet when I read the quote I posted in red it says " outer 24 Roman numerals and with an inner 24 hour Arabic. which would just look goofy. I give the idea of the Pickersgill dial no credence, have never seen one and don't think I ever will.

Don't want this thread moved from the public section

Link

Gerald

Yes Gerald, that is where Ralph got his reference to the Pickersgill dial in his first post.

It is a conventional Canadian dial that was in existence long before Mr. P is supposed to have created it as that watch is from 1908.

The sellers prose reminds me of a story of a Professor marking a paper, "Your essay is both original and good, the parts that are original are not good and the parts that are good are not original."