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Rarity question on my Special Railway "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
I need an opinion and clarification. I recent acquired this 18S Special Railway serial 2191642. The database has it as HT4L 5P but the movement appears to be not marked as such. The Hernick and Arnold book lists 2191651 as adjusted to five positions.

So, my question is, what am I looking at? Is it HT4L Adjusted or HT4L 5P?

 
Posts: 52 | Location: Houston, Texas in the USA | Registered: November 26, 2012
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
I would say both descriptions are accurate. It's adjusted to 5P.? Confused


Dave Turner
 
Posts: 1917 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
posted
That little detail does have a significance.

From Robert Schussel:

Special Railway
ON3L -5 Position 3,300
OT3L- 5 Position 250
ON3L-Adjusted ????
OT3L-Adjusted 7,500+
HN4L-5 Positions 250
HT4L-Adjusted 2,025
HT4L-5 Positions 400
 
Posts: 52 | Location: Houston, Texas in the USA | Registered: November 26, 2012
IHC Member 1555
posted
Hi Ed,

This is adjusted to 5 positions with only 250 made in this configuration, kinda makes it a rarity in my opinion.

Regards,
Bila
 
Posts: 1970 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Life Member
Picture of Eugene Buffard
posted
HN4L-5 Position

HN Hunter

4= model4
L= Lever set
5 position
 
Posts: 3408 | Location: Illinois in the USA | Registered: July 06, 2010
IHC Member 1110
posted
Ed, those 18s Sp'l. Railways always were a 5-position watch, but were not marked that way until the later 2 million serial numbers, around that time they began marking them with "Double roller" and "adjusted to five positions".Nice Hampden!...Ted.
 
Posts: 1201 | Location: Lebanon, Connecticut USA | Registered: March 28, 2008
posted
Thanks, friends. I felt when I got the watch that it was special, but it's good to get that confirmed.

Ed
 
Posts: 52 | Location: Houston, Texas in the USA | Registered: November 26, 2012
IHC Life Member
Picture of Richard M. Jones
posted
Ed I agree with the 5 positions vote. Hampden markings are sometimes a mystery to me also. Most of us have seen or are aware of the Waltham 1892 models with the plugged 23 jewel marking but as an example I have a 15 J Railway that was upgraded to 17 jewels and so marked above the balance. I saw another example with the same 17 jewel marking so I assume it was factory done and not a merchants "enhancement".


Deacon
 
Posts: 1021 | Location: Omaha, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: February 14, 2009
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
If I may ask, about what time did they upgrade the 18s Special Railway to double roller. I regularily carry one of the two tone 17j versions from 1896 with a serial number of 982344.

Regards! Mark
 
Posts: 3603 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Member 1110
posted
Hi Mark, Most 18S Hampden Railroad grades began to be marked "double roller" in the 2 million (and up) serial numbers, I also believe that all their double rollers were marked.They added the 5-positions marking at the same time.I also often carry a 17J 2-tone Special Railway, a little newer #1054274, it not only looks great, it's deadly accurate too! Take care, Ted.
 
Posts: 1201 | Location: Lebanon, Connecticut USA | Registered: March 28, 2008
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
Very good to know! Thanks Ted. Smile

Yep, our SR's are fantastic time keepers, aren't they? Amazing little machines, and can TOTALLY run a railroad!

I love mine so much I even listed it in my will as being my favorite pocket watch in my personal collection, to be handed down to one of my daughters at my passing....not that I plan to GO anywhere anytime soon. Wink Yep, I think THAT much of it!

I love 'em all, as we all do.... but that's my main vest carry watch, and has been for over a decade now.

I had a thread a few months back trying to decide to carry either my 950B or Ball Waltham, and yet still find myself reaching for my SR when I head for the door on a regular basis if I have a vest on, as it's housed in a Dueber Railway case. They're pretty big!

HIGH regards, and thanks for taking the time to answer my question!

Mark
 
Posts: 3603 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Member 1110
posted
You're welcome, Mark!
 
Posts: 1201 | Location: Lebanon, Connecticut USA | Registered: March 28, 2008
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
Welcome to IHC185 Ed!

There's an important general principle here that cuts across all RRG/RRA watches. From the very beginning in the 1890's, all RRG/RRA watches were required to be adjusted to 5 positions by time service rules, but were only marked "adjusted" up till about 1905. That was when the time service rules were changed to require the number of positions to be explicitly stated on the movement. So after 1905, we start to see the "adjusted 5 positions" marking.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6719 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
Excellent information, Ed. Thank you!
Smile
Regards! Mark
 
Posts: 3603 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of Richard M. Jones
posted
Good info Ed!


Deacon
 
Posts: 1021 | Location: Omaha, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: February 14, 2009
posted
Thanks all for the excellent information.

My SR is from 1906, so theoretically it should be marked 5 positions. That it's not marked as such makes me wonder if the plate was replaced at some point. However, this would not be the first strange anomaly in my short Hampden collecting experience.

Thanks again for the assist.

Ed
 
Posts: 52 | Location: Houston, Texas in the USA | Registered: November 26, 2012
IHC Life Member
Picture of Richard M. Jones
posted
Ed, I looked over some of my Hampdens and my feeling is that your watch was probably made before the 5p marking was required. The 18s Special Railway was a popular watch and having inventory on the shelf at the factory would have been logical. Another thought is that by 1906 the 16 sizes were in vogue and perhaps that resulted in a larger factory inventory of the 18s. In any event Hampden markings are a bit of a puzzle for us to have fun with.


Deacon
 
Posts: 1021 | Location: Omaha, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: February 14, 2009
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
Can I assume my Special Railway, #635731 made 1890/91, upgraded from 15 to 17 jewels was adjusted to 5 positions?
 
Posts: 2099 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
quote:

There's an important general principle here that cuts across all RRG/RRA watches. From the very beginning in the 1890's, all RRG/RRA watches were required to be adjusted to 5 positions by time service rules, but were only marked "adjusted" up till about 1905. That was when the time service rules were changed to require the number of positions to be explicitly stated on the movement. So after 1905, we start to see the "adjusted 5 positions" marking.

Best Regards,

Ed


Now that I read more closely, Ed has answered my question.
 
Posts: 2099 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
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