I need an opinion and clarification. I recent acquired this 18S Special Railway serial 2191642. The database has it as HT4L 5P but the movement appears to be not marked as such. The Hernick and Arnold book lists 2191651 as adjusted to five positions.

So, my question is, what am I looking at? Is it HT4L Adjusted or HT4L 5P?

I would say both descriptions are accurate. It's adjusted to 5P.?

That little detail does have a significance.

From Robert Schussel:

Special Railway
ON3L -5 Position 3,300
OT3L- 5 Position 250
ON3L-Adjusted ????
OT3L-Adjusted 7,500+
HN4L-5 Positions 250
HT4L-Adjusted 2,025
HT4L-5 Positions 400

Hi Ed,

This is adjusted to 5 positions with only 250 made in this configuration, kinda makes it a rarity in my opinion.

Regards,
Bila

HN4L-5 Position

HN Hunter

4= model4
L= Lever set
5 position

Ed, those 18s Sp'l. Railways always were a 5-position watch, but were not marked that way until the later 2 million serial numbers, around that time they began marking them with "Double roller" and "adjusted to five positions".Nice Hampden!...Ted.

Thanks, friends. I felt when I got the watch that it was special, but it's good to get that confirmed.

Ed

Ed I agree with the 5 positions vote. Hampden markings are sometimes a mystery to me also. Most of us have seen or are aware of the Waltham 1892 models with the plugged 23 jewel marking but as an example I have a 15 J Railway that was upgraded to 17 jewels and so marked above the balance. I saw another example with the same 17 jewel marking so I assume it was factory done and not a merchants "enhancement".

If I may ask, about what time did they upgrade the 18s Special Railway to double roller. I regularily carry one of the two tone 17j versions from 1896 with a serial number of 982344.

Regards! Mark

Hi Mark, Most 18S Hampden Railroad grades began to be marked "double roller" in the 2 million (and up) serial numbers, I also believe that all their double rollers were marked.They added the 5-positions marking at the same time.I also often carry a 17J 2-tone Special Railway, a little newer #1054274, it not only looks great, it's deadly accurate too! Take care, Ted.

Very good to know! Thanks Ted.

Yep, our SR's are fantastic time keepers, aren't they? Amazing little machines, and can TOTALLY run a railroad!

I love mine so much I even listed it in my will as being my favorite pocket watch in my personal collection, to be handed down to one of my daughters at my passing....not that I plan to GO anywhere anytime soon. Yep, I think THAT much of it!

I love 'em all, as we all do.... but that's my main vest carry watch, and has been for over a decade now.

I had a thread a few months back trying to decide to carry either my 950B or Ball Waltham, and yet still find myself reaching for my SR when I head for the door on a regular basis if I have a vest on. They're pretty big!

HIGH regards, and thanks for taking the time to answer my question!

Mark

You're welcome, Mark!

Welcome to IHC185 Ed!

There's an important general principle here that cuts across all RRG/RRA watches. From the very beginning in the 1890's, all RRG/RRA watches were required to be adjusted to 5 positions by time service rules, but were only marked "adjusted" up till about 1905. That was when the time service rules were changed to require the number of positions to be explicitly stated on the movement. So after 1905, we start to see the "adjusted 5 positions" marking.

Excellent information, Ed. Thank you!

Regards! Mark

Good info Ed!

Thanks all for the excellent information.

My SR is from 1906, so theoretically it should be marked 5 positions. That it's not marked as such makes me wonder if the plate was replaced at some point. However, this would not be the first strange anomaly in my short Hampden collecting experience.

Thanks again for the assist.

Ed

Ed, I looked over some of my Hampdens and my feeling is that your watch was probably made before the 5p marking was required. The 18s Special Railway was a popular watch and having inventory on the shelf at the factory would have been logical. Another thought is that by 1906 the 16 sizes were in vogue and perhaps that resulted in a larger factory inventory of the 18s. In any event Hampden markings are a bit of a puzzle for us to have fun with.

Can I assume my Special Railway, #635731 made 1890/91, upgraded from 15 to 17 jewels was adjusted to 5 positions?

quote:

There's an important general principle here that cuts across all RRG/RRA watches. From the very beginning in the 1890's, all RRG/RRA watches were required to be adjusted to 5 positions by time service rules, but were only marked "adjusted" up till about 1905. That was when the time service rules were changed to require the number of positions to be explicitly stated on the movement. So after 1905, we start to see the "adjusted 5 positions" marking.

Best Regards,

Ed

Now that I read more closely, Ed has answered my question.