Hi Folks

I recently purchased #4860 staffs on the recommendations from a number of sources including Tom @ dashto, Uncle Larry. However it is nothing like the original. Have I got it wrong, is #4860 not for model 1908 or is my 4860 not a 4860. Your help would be very much appreciated.

I have attached photos of:
(1) balance staffs; #4860 on left and the original on the right,
(2) the dial of the WWII Navy Deck Watch,
(3) the movement of the WWII Navy Deck Watch.

Regards

Gordon

Yup, those sure are different looking!

I have no books here to check the number for your staff but from recent experienc I'm pretty sure the 4860 and 4861 are friction staffs which each came in two pivot sizes and fit the '99 and '08. I would have guessed your ww2 era watch is a different grade. I may be wrong but, if you would post the ser. no. of your watch it would easy to check.
-Cort

All of the Waltham 16-size watches from this era (except timers) used the #4861 friction staff, which has a tapered shoulder rather than the square shoulder on your 4860 staff. I think that I can see a trace of bluing on the hub of your original staff which means that you have removed the blued steel hub along with the staff. The hub is supposed to remain in the balance wheel. There were special stumps for the staking set to support the hub while the staff was driven out. It may not be possible to put this hub back in the wheel. At one time Waltham stocked replacement hubs for just this sort of mistake (part #4866) and you may still be able to find one as I suspect these were not called for very often. The hub should rivet back into the balance wheel and stay there.

In THIS THREAD I show the stumps and stakes used for these balance staffs. The balance staff example that is partially driven out is the 4860 staff. When this staff is in place the square shoulder is still visible and a roller table with a larger center hole goes on the shoulder. With the 4861 taper-shouldered staff, the much smaller shoulder sinks into a countersink in the bottom of the hub. This then takes a roller table with the more familiar small hole and it rests just below the hub and concealed taper shoulder.

Hi Folks

Cort: The Waltham serial no site definitely has them as model 1908. I think Jerry's reply answers the problem.

Jerry: Many thanks for your reply and reference. The hub and staff came from a broken balance wheel. I am certainly now a where of the potential problem and will be careful with the other 11 staffs.

Gordon