Are any of our wristwatch enthusiasts familiar with Waltham's 7-1/2 ligne round and 5-1/4 ligne rectangular movements? These ladies watches were introduced around 1921 and were Waltham's most expensive timepieces. The movements, alone, cost $150 and $170, respectively at a time when the Riverside Maximus pocketwatch movement was $110. These top-grade 17-jewel movements had gold gear trains and had to be fitted at the factory to custom-ordered cases. By 1926 the movements cost $180 and $206. I believe many of these may have been fitted to handmade cases that I am researching. I would love to hear from anyone who knows about these or has examples.

Well, I just recently found this example. This has the 7-1/2 ligne round movement in an interesting, nicely carved 18K case, patented and made by Louis Lewitt.

The patent by Lewitt is for a two-piece hinged case, designed so that the movement is visible when the case is opened (rather than just exposing the front of the movement, as with most two-piece cases). The movement is held into the front part of the case by a special retaining ring. I think it is pretty neat that my example has the same shape case as in the patent drawing.

It is great having a cased example of one of these fine movements, and a nice bonus to have one in an interesting patented case. But it is an extra surprise to find a movement marked as this one. It was obviously originally marked for Tiffany & Co. and then modified to disguise this origin. The "E" is well done, but the "R" is rather awkward and the "X" is clearly hand carved, in contrast to the other stamped letters. This is the second such example I have seen of this modification of a Tiffany movement.

There have been many watches fraudulently marked Tiffany & Co. but that is not the case here. Waltham made a number of movements expressly for Tiffany, and these were all marked for the famous jeweler. I believe that for some reason Tiffany decided not to sell the movement at their store and, rather than destroy a very expensive movement, had the movement modified so that it could be sold anonymously, perhaps through a previously undocumented "seconds" store?. I do not believe any individual would have chosen to disguise a Tiffany origin, nor do I believe that Waltham would modify a watch in this fashion if it were not accepted by Tiffany -- Waltham would have just destroyed the movement or milled the name off.

Jerry,
it just so happens I do have one. It's installed in a nice solid 14K Waltham case. The strap of the watch is actually a black silk ribbon with a 14K gold clasp.

The serial # 22311828 dates it C. 1919. It's a 15J Lady Waltham with a Breguet Spring.

Figure I

Figure II

Figure III

Figure IV

I recently found another re-marked Tiffany/Waltham. This one has a 10-ligne movement.

It is in a carved 14K white gold Solidarity case and has a silver dial with gold numbers.

I love these!!! Fantastic!

A lot of mine are like these, but are mostly cheap Elgins, with a few solid Gold cases.

I like my one piece white gold ones a lot, and they look like these on here.

Of course the movements are mostly Elgins, with a few nice ones mixed in.

I'm going to have to check and see if I have any Walthams now... ????

Thanks for sharing

First I must correct a date I have in my lead-off post in this thread. Although I still believe that the 5-1/4 ligne rectangular movement dates from 1921 or 1922 I now believe that the first 7-1/2 ligne round movements were made as early as 1915. This caliber is not shown in the 1916 Waltham material catalog, but it was a new movement of very limited production (only a few hundred made at that date) and probably did not warrant a page. [Waltham had at least one other limited caliber (9-ligne) that was never included in their material catalogs, so this is nothing new].

The first 7-1/2 ligne round movements started with serial number 20,074,501 which dates to approximately 1915. The example shown in this post has a movement from the first large production run at 20,309,501-20,311,500 which is probably about a year later (1916). It is in a marvelous heavy platinum case with 64 diamonds set around the bezel and in the hinged lugs. Note, also, the platinum clasp and the engraving on the edge of the case, lugs and crown. [I was pleased to obtain this recently from our own Jeff Hess].

Yes, Mr. Treiman obtained this with a mixture of charm, conversational persuation and unlagging perstistance.

My wife protested strongly but when I explained to her Jerrys passion for these (and shared with her some of the research that Jerry has...) she relented.

Nice watch! Jeff
(I have always mentioned a need for more study on these smaller movements and Jerry has obviously takenthe lead. Check your boxes and drawers guys and share some info with Jerry!)

Here is part of a 1919 National Geographic Waltham ad. This was in June. In their December 1919 ad the starting price has gone up to $175 and in May of 1920 the caption for the same illustration indicates a range of "$250 to $1,500 or more"!

Here is part of a 1922 National Geographic ad. The identical cut is used to illustrate the 5-1/4 ligne rectangular watch in a 1923 Waltham catalog and I imagine this was really better suited to the rectangular movement.

More styles are shown in Waltham's May 1926 catalog. The round movement is $150 plus case. The rectangular movement is $170 plus case. Benjamin Allen's 1926 catalog prices the movements at $180 and $206 (perhaps later that year).

Jerry need parts?

Thanks, Jeff. Parts are always useful for these little ones. The round one is a 7-1/2 ligne movement and most of the rectangular ones are the later 400 model (4 lignes!!)

The earlier 5-1/4 ligne rectangular movement that I showed at the beginning of this thread is a very unusual one. You will note that on the top plate you only see the ratchet wheel.

It is, in fact, only a ratchet wheel. The winding action is completely hidden. Instead of a large winding wheel the rim of the safety barrel has teeth cut in it and it is directly turned by an intermediate winding wheel on the rocking bar ("yoke" in the material list) that can be seen under the dial. The unusual barrel assembly is seen on the right, with the teeth visible on the steel barrel and the main wheel visible below. As with all Waltham safety barrels the spring is wound from the perimeter (turning the barrel) and the train is run by the mainwheel that is driven from the hub at the center of the mainspring. The visible ratchet wheel from the first picture is on the other end of the barrel arbor seen in this picture and it turns at the same time as the toothed barrel.

Parts box on its way to you!

Jerry i know i have several of these movements i dont think any are in cases ..I will hunt them up and load a picture for you..

Jerry i looked at the movements i have and they are for the most part lady walthams after i measured them they are about a 10/0 size or 9 ligne which is larger than the ones you pictured but here is a picture of one of the tiny rectangular ones...

i took the picture with it setting on top of a swiss military watch just to give folks a idea just how small these are.I would hate to take one of these apart i dont think my old eyes would be able to see the little parts ..