Franz Watzl Albatros instrument panel clock. Generally Austrian instrument panel clocks were mounted in the rectangular casing seen on this picture. These were inscribed K&K Luftfahrttruppen and then had a number. The dial itself was also marked with the name of the company producing the plane and generally Franz Watzl, the watch maker. I have have seen/own the following versions:
Albatros Flugzeugwerke
Aviatik*
Phoenix Flugzeugwerke
Oesterreich Ungarische Flugzeugwerke Budapest
which make me believe that there should be a dial for each of the aiplane producers. (Lohner,...). The movement itself is of inferior quality and was obviously not intended for extended usage. *(This one I am still trying to buy but am having difficulties as the present owner is still using it.... in his toilet as a wall clock)

The Phoenix is missing the standard casing mentioned in the last post but is exceptionally rare as only very few Phoenix aircraft were produced.

Below is a standard German instrument panel clock marked Eigentum der Fliegertruppen (property of the flying force) and FW Kreis Berlin West aparently the distributor. On the back of the case the winged propeller with the FLZ lettering is stamped. Z was frequently considered depicting Zeppelin usage but it would appear that due to the frequency of appearances Zeugamt is more probable. This would have been mounted on the panel in a special watch holder. I think that the rings (to secure a watchchain) are probably a later addition)

As before stop watch

as before Chronometer

and now to the French and honestly I have no idea what this is. Property of military aviation. Larger than the German or English clocks but no idea when and where it was used. Any ideas anyone? Spad XVII or XIII usage pictures would make me a happy man ;o)

Some Mark V's these were frequently equiped with top movements by Swiss manufacturers and generally of superior quality compared to the austro/german pieces (exceptions are the chronos)

and now to finish off for today a special piece. A so called Barograph. This instrument was essentially the first airplane flight recorder. The drum with a piece of paper stuck onto it depicts altitude on the y axis and time on the x axis. within the drum there is a watch movement that when wound by a key will turn the drum at a speed according to the markings on the paper. The flat discs on the right hand side are closed off and function as an altimeter. Via some levers this is conected to the drum with an ink dipped marker which will record the altitudes flown during a given flight.

These papersrps would then be comented by the pilot (or observer) as a recording for the flight

Here is another one unique as far as I know and no one knows what it is for 120 seconds for one run of the second hand and the two dots change their colours from green to red to yellow (and all of this before the concept of a traffic light was known)

A Doxa 8 day mounted in a wood box but probably a panel clock at one point in time. Usage when, where, which country are unknown.

I am going to stop here. Please let me know if I am boring you to death or if my postings are inappropriate for the forum. I just thought I might share some of the stuff.

Greetings Oliver,

Many thanks for sharing more of your extensive collection and knowledge with us. I am much better educated for it.

It is interesting to know that aircraft manufacturer names appeared on the Austo-Hungarian aircraft timepieces. To my knowledge, this observation has not been previously published. Or, it could be my ignorance of early aircraft, the sort of knowledge which others take for granted. The movements within these timepieces are rather cheap. But the good part is that parts may be had from various inexpensive Swiss pocket watches which do not seem to be too hard to find.

Your German timer is the only one like it I have seen. The exact military uses of the various complex timers of Germany have often vexed me. I wish I could be of more use with them. For example, a while ago, I communicated with Konrad Knirim about my, “Semicrograph”, but he had no idea what the German military did with such elaborate stopwatches during WWI.

The large French aircraft timepiece is intriguing. At least one source has a picture of one of these watches hanging inside of a leather pouch with two straps. The author (Whitney in MILITARY TIMEPIECES) states that it was used in a WWI French observation balloon. While these big pieces may have only been used in balloons, I suspect they were also used in aircraft, though perhaps in some other form of mounting. There is one like yours in my little collection, though I have not had the time to repair it as yet.

Good luck rescuing the KuK aircraft clock from the toilet room! Keep us posted on your progress.

We are looking forward to seeing more of your collection - you are always welcome to post them here.

Best regards,

Greg

Oliver,

First and although a little delayed, welcome to the IHC 185 board.
I have liked your presentation, with the different provenance of your aviation clocks. The one piece that really amused me was the altimeter, very ingenious way of making a solution and the trace recorded in the chart looks clear and well defined, it is a piece of art...

Please go ahead with new posts, we enjoy seeing pictures for all sorts of horological devices.

Regards

Carlos Flores

Oliver i have enjoyed your postings.My freind Ben Roberts from this chapter would find your photos and information interesting.
Thanks again for sharing and joining ch 185.

Thank you for the friendly comments. I will try to get some better photos in the future. Is there anything especially interesting in the field of German military watches that you would like to see?

oliver, anything German that you find interesting I'm sure we will find interesting as well. The barograph is interesting to me for the reason that I have a Luftwaffe barograph from WWII.

One item of particular interest would be the military watches of WWI Germany. Those issued to the troops. At this point, I have seen Kriegsmarine deck watches and flight watches, but no army issued watches from WWI Germany. I was wondering if German officers and men were expected to buy their own or if the Army issued pocket watches or wristwatches on a limited scale?

Best regards,
Greg

Many thanks for sharing your photos and thoughts Oliver, your collection is exceptional!

On the Allion a Versailles watch, I have seen several of these over the years and each time they were represented as being from the balloon section of the French air service. I have seen them in both average size and over-size pocket watches. I don't know the reason for the two sizes, but one completely unsubstantiated theory I have been mulling over is based on the fact that the firm "Allion a Versailles" was one of the companies that provided timepieces to the French air service during the war but they apparently were not a watchmaking company themselves. Their movements were Swiss-made from more than one maker - some who signed their movements (like Doxa) and some who did not. Allion a Versailles was a company that mounted these movements with their own cases and dials and provided them to the French air service under a contract. I am thinking that it might have been possible that the two sizes could have been due to their buying movements from more than one source and that was all that was available. Or, I may be all wrong and it could be something else entirely such as one size being for use in the balloons while the other was for use by officers on the ground, or ??? I wish there were some kind of good reference book on French air service timepieces that would clear these mysteries up.

I have a question about another of your nice clocks - the 8 day clock in the wooden box. Are there any aviation service or other military kinds of markings anywhere on it? I am puzzled by the dial where the typeface of the numbers follow the shape used on French WW I aircraft clocks but the wording on the dial is in German. That seems to be a contradiction to me. I can't see the details, but my first impression is that this looks rather like some automobile clocks of the 1920s I've seen rather than an aircraft clock. Can you tell us a bit more about it and why you believe it to be an aircraft clock? Many thanks!

A question for you military folks, if I may. I just saw the French 'upside down' watch, and have seen one recently that was made by Elgin. There was a question at the time what the heck they would have built a 16s watch like that for. Would it be a logical step to think that the Elgin in question could have also been an aviation watch. The case (as I recall) was very worn, and had been worn around the neck quite a bit. What should I look for to confirm on way or the other? Like I said, seeing it was a first for me, and this French watch caught my eye. Regards. Mark

Hi Mark.

Most "pocket" watches you find with the winding stem at the 6 o'clock position came from either automobiles or travel cases or desktop holders and were non-military use watches including the ones with black dials.

The ones from autos were either mounted directly in the dashboards or in cases that were mounted to the dashboards. A few were mounted in cases in the rear compartment areas. Many were purchased and installed as aftermarket accessories. While most of these you run across are civilian models, once in a while you find military ones that were used in military cars or trucks. A small percentage were used in military aircraft and were typically mounted in cases attached to the instrument panel. These tend to have aviation service markings on them. The ones of these you see with rings mounted to the winding stems typically had the rings added by private jewelers at some point after their aircraft use when they found their way into the hands of private citizens who wanted to use them as ordinary pocket watches. Another small percentage had the rings on them from the start and were carried by military aviators worn on a lanyard around their necks. An example of these are the ones worn by German Zeppelin crews. These again have aviation service markings.

The ones that were in travel cases were typically in folding leather cases that allowed you to put one in your suitcase and when you arrived somewhere you opened the case up and hooked the case ends together to form a triangular arrangement that allowed it to stand upright on a table or desk top. I believe ones from travel cases are the most commonly found versions.

I have also seen a few mounted in desktop holders of the era.

Elgin made watches with the winding stem at the 6 o'clock position for both auto and folding travel clock markets of the time. I am not aware that they ever made any for the WW I era air services.

Thank you Jim. I, too, have seen the Elgin travel examples you mention. This particular Elgin is a 16s, is incased in a standard goldfilled Wadsworth case with standard bow (REALLY worn on the back at the bottom from where it was apparently worn on a neck lanyard and carried a LOT. From the wear, it must have rubbed against a shirt or jacket as they walked or moved. Just guessing, but I think it's a good 'guess'..). I need to take another look inside that thing. As I recall it was a 17j, but it's been about a month since I had it in my hand. I bet someone took one of the mentioned travel type watch movements, installed it in a standard case, then worn it on a neck lanyard for some type use.

Thanks for the input again, Jim. Something to mull over. High regards. Mark

Concerning the 8day in the wooden box. The watch may or may not be aircraft and I am also unsure about the usage time. I have pretty much all instrument panel clocks in all versions of the second world war for planes and lan vehicles none of which come anywhere near to this pattern. It could be a car clock sure but I am hoping that it turns out to be aircraft especially since this very maker was often associated with aircraft products but do not know.

Concerning military issue watches and clocks to the army. I have not seen any. There are numerous watches and clocks in patriotric cases with patriotic dials and so forth but I have never come accross a military issued watch for the army. The Navy examples of pocket watches that I have are all marked with M numers and crowns with the exception of the J Assmann which is unmarked throughout. Airarm watches are either/or/and marked Eigentum der Fliegertruppe on the dial and either flz or fl on the back with a propeller engraving.