Hamilton 2974B Without Movement Number

April 20, 2011, 02:48

John J. Flahive III

I have an unusual Hamilton 2974B comparing watch without a [movement] number! Normally, the serial number (K### or 2K###) can be found in the space between the barrel bridge and the balance cock. In this watch, there is nothing there. What is the deal?

April 20, 2011, 02:51

John J. Flahive III

The inside of the case back of this watch has a sticker with the words STD LAB, the number 714, and a long acronym: U.S.N.O.T.S.

Does anyone know what that stands for? Could this sticker be related to the lack of a number on the movement?

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

John III

April 20, 2011, 08:16

Buster Beck

"U.S.N.O.T.S."

United States Naval Ordnance Test Station

regards,
bb

April 20, 2011, 10:38

Edward L. Parsons, Jr.

Apparently someone built a watch on a Hamilton pillar plate with no serial number. I have seen them offered for sale on eBay.

April 20, 2011, 22:47

Jim Hester

It could be built up from parts, which is what I think Ed is saying - if so I would tend to agree with him.

April 21, 2011, 12:45

Tom Brunton

quote:
United States Naval Ordnance Test Station

what I think is also possible is that it was supplied by Hamilton to United States Naval Ordnance Test Station for testing or consideration or approval

??? I've never seen those decals on the loose ,though after the fact sale of Hamilton and military stores material might have taken place,it would be still quite a chore for it to be just a few buck scam don't you think?

It might have been an early factory submitted prototype

April 21, 2011, 13:40

Tom Brown

It would be interesting to see if there are any numbers on the different plates or bridges.

Tom

April 22, 2011, 00:22

John J. Flahive III

Thanks for all the input.

I'll pull the dial and the balance cock to see what is what. Pics forthcoming.

John III

April 22, 2011, 07:43

Edward L. Parsons, Jr.

I'd be interested to see what you find, but I wouldn't expect there to be any serial numbers on the back sides of the bridges. In the era of truly interchangeable parts, that was no longer needed.

April 22, 2011, 13:58

John J. Flahive III

After consulting with my Master Watchmaker, Anthony, the movement has been taken apart. It wasn't running, so we needed to take it apart anyway.

April 22, 2011, 13:59

John J. Flahive III

It turns out Ed was right, there are no serial numbers on any of the bridges.

April 22, 2011, 14:00

John J. Flahive III

No serial number on the pillar plate area where it is supposed to be. No file marks either so it never had one.

April 22, 2011, 14:00

John J. Flahive III

And also no serial number on the pillar plate under the dial.

April 22, 2011, 14:03

John J. Flahive III

Does this mean that there are no serial numbers anywhere on 2974B comparing watches except in the usual place?

Maybe I should take another one apart to see what I can find.

John III

April 23, 2011, 09:13

Edward L. Parsons, Jr.

Yes John, I'd say so. Interesting research we're doing here!

April 23, 2011, 13:42

Lindell V. Riddle

Hi John and Anthony!

Ed is right, the only number on any of the "B" movements, meaning any Hamilton based upon the 992B which includes 992B, 974B, 2974B, 3992B, 4992B and of course 950B is the number on the pillar plate. Being blank on yours, that absence and the decal could lead to speculation you guys may may have something that was sent to the Navy by Hamilton for testing and evaluation, but the movement markings being "Third-Signature" may not be early-enough in order to be pre-production on one of these. I am usually suspicious of "un-marked" movements, however since this one has the "Joe Friday" badge "714" number on that decal... But seriously, having never seen a decal like that before, I draw a complete blank on it's meaning but cannot help but wonder why such a thing would be placed inside the case-back rather than outside where it could be readily seen.

By the way, some notes I have show K001-K003 as being marked as 974B apparently in pre-production then K004-K2900 were produced, with "2K" prefaced numbers blocked through 2K13000 leading to the conclusion there may have been as many as 16,000 total of similar watches turned out within the 1941-45 time frame. Those are not very big production numbers especially when considered during wartime.

From what I could see of your case it looks right, military style, same style case as we find on military 992B examples, with screw-back and bezel and a snap-on secondary dust cover protecting the movement. Speaking of the case, check the case manufacturer's number you should find on the frame-front down around the 6:00 area. My case is marked 0095730 there and the accompanying 2974B is movement is numbered 2K10894 apparently from 1944 and marked with that year on the outside case-back. Unfortunately you would not want to remove the decal to confirm the case number there but it should be found on the frame. Navy ordnance markings, if any, on the outside of the case-back would be of interest.

Lindell

Outside case-markings on my 2974B watch...

April 23, 2011, 17:13

Tom Brunton

A decal placed on the outside would be subject to being worn off the case, as any who have bought decal glass clocks will attest. Many of the Pequegnat King Edward and Canadian Time decals were worn off or worn thin from cleaning the glass in use,and they were on the inside of the door glass, so I find the decal inside the case to be a preferred location for both the maker and testing body,just my opinion, which,along with $1.59 will get you A CUP OF COFFEE!!!

April 23, 2011, 18:57

William D. White

Way to go Anthony!

April 24, 2011, 06:51

Werner Rosier

clever lad, is our Tom

April 24, 2011, 16:37

John J. Flahive III

Based on the info from Ed and Lindell regarding the lack of serial number markings on the 2974B bridges, I'm not going to take apart another one.

Just wondering where a pillar plate without a serial number might come from?

Another shot of Anthony doing some tweezing.