Authentic 4992B Civil Conversion???

May 16, 2005, 13:59

Jim Hester

The railroad influenced dial with each minute being numbered also seems a little retro for a 1950s era watch when the popular taste in industrial design was running towards the modern and space age. I have no idea whether this case and dial are original to these, but if they are I would imagine these watches would not have been big sellers not only because pocket watches were pretty much out of fashion and relegated to the back of socks drawers by then, but also because the overall design was not in step with the early 1950s modernistic styles.

May 16, 2005, 19:21

Terry Hill

the records for this do exist at the ***** library...

the ledger details are there for this serial number range...

Book 365 contains 4C001 to 4C15500...

an inquiry will support or debunk the 'factory' conversion.... depending on the sales date..

with a serial number this early, i would suspect it fulfilled an early military contract instead of sitting around....

I do know that 4C1726 was sold to Penna-Central Airlines Corp, Washington, DC to PCA hanger #4 at Washington National Airport, Purchase order 28619, req #2375 ... sold for 47.25 with 2%10 day net 30 terms... it is possible the case number was 1329091 ... as this number is on there but not identified... that number looks like a Keystone number from that time frame which was 7/9/1942

May 16, 2005, 22:59

Lindell V. Riddle

In my view the eBay Seller's story does not hold up for several reasons.

First, the movement number 4C1989 is a very early one. We have discussed both number 4C1828 (which is a pristine, boxed example) and 4C1821 previously...

"U.S. Army Air Corps" Marked Hamilton 4992B

As we determined from Hamilton records on file at the ***** Library...

"Hamilton 4992B number 4C1828 was finished on July 23, 1942 and sold the same day to Code Number 64-0964 which is a government code."

From that 1942 date for 4C1828 it is only reasonable to conclude that 4C1989 would have been shipped early-on as well. There was a huge demand during the war! In other words the seller's version of events and the watch in question being a leftover at Hamilton some years later are probably a flight of fancy.

Secondly, as Jim pointed out the dial is not at all like those used by Hamilton in the post WWII era.

Third, that Illinois Watch Case Company replacement case would not have been issued by the Hamilton factory.

Fourth, the conversion process done on this watch was common right after WWII when these were commonly being sold as battle-weary watches in surplus stores. In fact I'm told part of learning watchmaking in those years involved servicing and converting one of those into exactly what we see in the auction.

If you carefully read the topic Charlie pointed to, you'll read additional conversion information.

Hope this helps,

Lindell

May 17, 2005, 15:35

Jerry Freedman

I have a 4992B and a box. The number on the case back and the hand written number on the box match. That number of course is not the Hamilton serial number which is 4C88345. The serial number on the box and case back is 27108. Is there any relationship between the Hamilton number and the box and case back number?

May 17, 2005, 15:41

Terry Hill

jerry,

from what i have seen, the numbers on the case back were spelled out in the contract.... even the serial number..

May 17, 2005, 16:10

Lindell V. Riddle

Jerry,

We need to think of the movement number as that and the "Serial Number" is on the case-back.

There is no correlation between them as such, however...

Look at and study carefully the boxed example 4C1828 and the "Serial Number AC-42-2284" applied to the case. Compare it with the "Serial Number AC-42-2238" on the case holding 4C1821 and you'll see there is a correlation between those two watches. You will also notice everything else matches on the two case-backs. Two very important early watches that unlike the auction example survived intact.

Use the link in the post above yours, your answer is there.

Read that topic carefully. You'll see in the first two images of that topic that all the case-back information appears on the original box label. If you need anything specific about 4C1828 it is in my collection.

Lindell