Hi All

I am conducting some research to try to find out a bit more info on a pocket watch that was found on a known Gettysburg battlefield during excavations. If anyone has any idea what this watch may be, or any knowledge about this watch, I'd be very grateful for any information at all.

Thanks
Steve

Here's another img:

One more...

That is a Swss Bar movement, and could easily be age appropriate to have been carried by a soldier on the battlefield. This style of Swiss watch is listed as having been made from about 1850 to 1880. For having been excavated from the battlefield, it is in remarkably good shape. That brings up the question--How long or short a time was it buried there? With Pennsylvania weather being as moist as it is, a watch buried for just a short period of time would show significant rust.

Tom

I had to wait until I got home tonight to compare a watch I have with the one in the photos. I am currently sitting here with watch in hand, and mine is identical in everyway with the watch in question, with the exception that mine only has the words 'Patent Lever' on the curvette, and the words 'Railway Time Keeper, John Keelsey, Liverpool' on the dial. Mine is currently missing the minute hand, but the hour hand has the same tip with full moon as the minute hand on the pictured watch. The case's hallmark matches one in the Shugart book to date at least the case to 1857, and from all appearances, the movement is original to the watch. I'm hoping to locate a minute hand, and have been told one might be found today, so I'm pleased.

From what little I've been able to research, the watch cottage industry in England in the mid to late 1800's was a huge one, and Swiss movements in unfinished condition were purchased in bulk, then finished by families in a mulitude of names and finishes. The lettering on my dial was definitely hand done, as you can see the fine brush marks of each letter under the loupe, as well as the fact that some of the letters were not correctly spaced in the application of the last name.

Mine actually keeps pretty decent time too.

I would be interested in hearing more on how this one came to be found in the kind of condition we see it in as well. It's as good as mine, though my case seems a bit 'cleaner'.

Regards! Mark

Many thanks Tom & Mark for your replies, this is really helpful information.

In response to some of the points raised about this watch I can tell you that the watch was found by a chap called "Basil Biggs" a Gettysburg resident, who was hired to disinter and reinter US bodies into the new National Cemetery.

I was original told that the watch was "dug up" but from your points I think we could safely say that the watch was probably taken from a soldier or given to Biggs or found, that would explain the condition.

Mark, can I take it from your post that you think the movement is Swiss and that it has been finished and exported by English watch makers? I'd love to see some photos of your watch if at all possible.

Once again, many thanks.

Very interesting piece. I will have to take the old swiss key wind I have out of the safe and compare it to this just for curiosity. My recollection is that mine is similar vintage and signed on the dial and silver case, "E. Richard, Locle."

My Swiss key wind is the pocket watch that first hooked me on collecting vintage pocket watches. The idea that it was as old as it was- approximately Civil War vintage- and still kept pretty good time and was apparently all original except for a replacement crystal really captured my imagination.

That is correct, Steve. Swiss movement, but Liverpool marked dial and English proof mark on case.

I have no camera, but hopefully my watchmaker will have the time to make a couple of photos and post them here when he has the watch in hand. He is a member here as well.

Regards! Mark

It has been my understanding that most of these watches were finished by the Swiss, who also did the dials and cases. Often cases have fake English hall marks. They often have English names and addresses, but then the same type will also be found with French names and Paris addresses. All to fool the buyer.

The watch pictured is of the type used by both sides in the Civil War. The Swiss Bar was more common in the U.S. at that time than any other type.

Please take note that American Civil War artifacts are hard to collect because of the massive amount of fraud. The story that it was dug up, even from a grave, is unlikely. As noted, it has no rust. Further, it was common after a battle for watches to be taken from the dead. Sometimes sent back to his family, more often taken by the victors and various unscrupulous persons.

Best regards,
Greg

I agree that there is no way this watch could have been dug up given the condition of the movement. Dug watches from battlefields of this war are typically little more than lumps of rust. These days pretty much every watch that was made in the years prior to or during the early 1860s is advertised and sold as an authentic Civil War watch. Most of them have tantalizing stories that they came from a soldier killed in action or were handed down from a soldier who carried it during the war. From what I have experienced, most of these stories have no basis other than to add value by a seller. I am sure that many soldiers brought their own watches to the war since they needed to tell the time just like everyone else but unless there is some really reliable provenance, I don't know of any way to tell the difference between a watch that a soldier brought along with them to the war apart from the countless other watches that were used by civilians of the day. Engravings are easy to fake so they are not much help when they are present, though in the case of this watch which does not have them they are not a factor.

My g-g-grandfather was a mercenary for the North during this war for three years and I have done a fair amount of reading on what it was like for him. Soldiers normally lived in pretty rough field conditions for years on end and most delicate things such as watches would have been ruined under these conditions since they would have been repeatedly soaked whenever it rained or snowed and would also have been continously banged about. Keeping dry was not an easy thing for a soldier of the day and sickness from these rough living conditions killed far more than bullets during this bloody war. This watch may very well have been carried by a soldier during this war, but without some convincing provenance there is no way to tell and the chances that it was not are more likely.

It would be cool to see what has in fact been dug up from battlefields, to see the brand names, movement types, etc. But, we would have to locate collections in the hands of honest diggers who in fact dug them up from known battlefields and encampments. Maybe the Smithsonian has such a collection?

Steve,
Here is one I have that is kind of close, but not exact. I never did find anything about it. The rest of the story is at this link: click here.

Andy