Hello all, I just picked up my first Elgin GCT with the BW Raymond movement. I think I got a good deal but that is to be determined until it arives. I know there are plenty of Hamilton 4992B's out there and Waltham, Longines and others made this style watch for the military during the WWII years and after. I guess what I am asking is: what ratio from Hamilton to Elgin, Waltham and others: who made more. Are the Elgin, Waltham and other models considered rarer than Hamilton. Hamilton has always made impressive timepieces during this era and quality was high but do Elgins and Walthams compare. It must compare as the military's exspectations should not differ from manufacturer. Am I correct to assume this? Can anyone add more to the differences, quality and quantity made of the individual manufacturers? Regards to all. Mike
I will attach some pics of the new addition.
Also has anyone elso noticed the increase of Hamilton 4992B's to ebay? I think the bandwagon has been jumped!
Also, why were some movements marked "21 Jewels" such as mine and other examples are marked "22 Jewels" like the example I have attached a link and photo of? Were some movments made earlier and were marked "21 Jewels" but had 22. The serial number on mine is 41752040 (marked 21 Jewels) and on this other example serial number 41757122 (marked 22 jewels). Can someone explain why and what the purpose of the 22nd jewel was for: hacking or 24 hour hand movement? There is only a difference of 5,082 in serial numbers. Were the Jewel count markings changed over to "22 Jewels" during the manufacture time span of these two examples?
I think you scored a really nice example. It has enough wear to give it an honest patina from use during the war, but it is not worn out so you also get all of the fineness in both the movement and the easy legibility of the markings on the back. I think that you nabbed it for a good price - congrats!
The Elgin serial number on the movement is consistent with the Army Air Forces serial number on the case back - 1943 though with serial numbers it is possible that the following year could be a possibility. I would go with 1943 as most likely though.
I have never seen totals produced by maker on these, though hopefully someone coming along here may have and can provide them. My guess is that the numbers would likely have been somewhat similar across the makers given that all three companies and their political representatives in Washington would have demanded their fair share of the government production contracts. There would have been something of a leveling effect.
On quality, my thought is the three makes would all be quite comparable since they were all manufacturing to the exact same set of government specifications. Part of my thinking is reflected in another Army Air Forces timepiece from the era, the model 37500. This aircraft instrument chronometer was made jointly by Hamilton and Elgin who shared the contract. Each company made some of the parts and then they then exchanged them so each had a resulting mixture of Hamilton and Elgin made parts. Each then assembled final 37500 model aircraft chronometers from their stock of Elgin made and Hamilton made parts. My thought is these jointly made precision aircraft chronometers would not have worked very well if one company was making parts to a lesser standard than the other.
Posts: 872 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
Thank alot for your reply Jim! I would love to see more examples that are out there as I am sure there are many. I found out my own answer as to the purpose of the 22nd jewel - it is a bearing for the center second hand. Thanks again for all and any assistance I can get with this piece.
Is there something going on with the Elgin database that gives grades, serial number dates and ranges? Does anyone know if it is non operational?
