I was under the impression that there was an implicit increase in the degree of accuracy in the H.S. codes on British Admiralty time pieces, with H.S. 1 being more accurate (over time) than H.S. 2 and H.S. 2 more accurate than H.S.3; however, there is an Elgin boxed chronometer currently on eBay, with an H.S. 6 designation that has an Elgin "Father Time" movement in it. Though I don't normally collect them, I have noticed that Father Time movements are highly desirable, and presumably very accurate. An H.S. 6 designation simply designates a "Boxed Chronometer"; What am I missing.

Thanks,

Mason

Hello Mason,

I do not have much but what I can pull from reference is this:

H.S.1 : Chronometer watch with detent escapement
H.S.2 : Chronometer watch adjusted for isochronism in five positions
H.S.3 : Deck watch adjusted for isochronism in a minimum of two positions
H.S.4 : Fleet Air Arm instrument panel watch
H.S.5 : Survey boat pocket watch
H.S.6 : Ship's chronometer with gimballed movement
H.S.7 : Watch calibrated for sidereal time (?)
H.S.8 : Fleet Air Arm pilot's wristwatch
H.S.9 : Chronograph wristwatch
H.S.10 : Diver's wristwatch
H.S.11 : Standard issue wristwatch

Now Mason, this is what was taken out of a reference book regarding military timepieces. I have no idea if at all these codes represent any other degree of accuracy other than the number of adjustments and isochronism. As you can see the H.S. designation goes higher than 6 for other types of timepieces. I also wonder if other manufacturers besides Elgin, Hamilton and Waltham made these boxed gilballed chronometers used by the British. I am sure there is another member that can explain further and deeper into these accuracy degrees and manufactuers. Regards, Mike

I believe this is the eBay auction Mason is refering to:
eBay auction in question

Walter, I have a suspicion that someone is making these up...here´s another (Waltham)
The brasswork look identical, and to me not enough patina for a 100 year old marine timepiece!
Although I must admit, I´ve read somewhere, that some watches could have been pressed into military service, due to lack of watches!
So I could be wrong here!
Waltham

Hallo friends
the Admiralty Manual of Navigation issue 1945 states
H.S.6 Chronometer Watch ("New Waltham" type)
which stands for these US gimballed chronometer watches. The British government surplus dealer UTS did sell them. (see page 261 of my British Military Timepieces)
Wether they were really marked H.S.6, I do not know, I never saw one. I only know a Canadian Navy Hamilton M22 marked C.H.S.2.

. Gruesse/Regards/Salute Konrad Knirim
PS: Have a look at my books on Military Timepieces:
. http://www.knirim.de

Konrad, the Admiralty was not refering to the type of which I set a link, the serial number dates it to 1902. They were refering to as you quoted, ("New Waltham" type)

On the original question; I thought (or read somewhere) that the Hydrographic Department or Service, was sort of like the U.S. National Bureau of Standards, in that they certified minimum performance and/or quality standards for naming and use of government purchased items, such as in this case, military timing devices.

Disregarding for the moment what a “New Waltham type” might be, but using the code charts provided by Michael and Konrad earlier in this thread, would a boxed and gimbaled Hamilton Model 21 used by the British navy be marked as an H.S. 1 or H.S. 6?

Hallo friends,
- all these Gimballed Chronometer Watches of Waltham, Elgin, Longines, Zenith etc. are made around WWI. There are not newer constructions except Hamilton M22.
- the att. Waltham ad (date unknown) states the supply to the British Government. Why the Admiralty may call them 'New Waltham' type, I do not know.
- A Hamilton M21 is clearly a H.S.1 Chronometer. There are lots of them as British Government Property in Greenwich.
. Gruesse/Regards/Salute Konrad Knirim

quote:

Disregarding for the moment what a “New Waltham type” might be, but using the code charts provided by Michael and Konrad earlier in this thread, would a boxed and gimbaled Hamilton Model 21 used by the British navy be marked as an H.S. 1 or H.S. 6?

Walter, boxed and gimbaled, it would be H.S. 1.

Here´s a good link for more information;
Maritime Museum

Hallo friends,
I like to add, that the Hydrographic Standard system marked H.S. was introduced in WWII and later after the war it was changed to the pre-NSN-system H.S. xxx-yyyy.
(The NSN got additional type code 6645-and the country code 99 for UK and 12 for Germany for instance.)

Royal Navy H.S. and 527- number system, some exemples:
- Chronometer: Hamilton M21 H.S. 1 => H.S. 527-3634
- Chronometer Watch: Ulysse Nardin H.S. 2 => H.S. 527-3636,
- Deck Watch: Longines H.S. 3 => H.S. 527-3637.
- Pocket Watch: Revue H.S. 5 => H.S. 527-3639
- Sidereal Stopwatch: Lemania H.S. 7 SID, => H.S. 527-3640
The picture below shows the newer H.S. codes with RN and RAF exemples and a
Royal Navy chronometer Hamilton M21 #5674 of the National Maritime Museum Greenwich
with the H.S. 527-3634 number plate in the box.

. Gruesse/Regards/Salute Konrad Knirim
PS: Have a look at my books on Military Timepieces:
. http://www.knirim.de

Great info, Konrad,thanks!

Mason