I´ll start with the Junghans, with the J88 movement. In my oppinion the most sought after!
The watch was issued from 1958 to the pilots of the Luftwaffe, the Jets that were flown at that time were Lockheed´s F-104 „Starfighter“
The watch was also issued to the commanding officers of the Navy, especially the commanders of the submarines and the fast patrol boats and to the commanders of the armoured reconnaissance/ long range reconnaissance patrols of the Army as well.




The Heuer H3 was the watch which took over after the Junghans.
I´ll spare you my explainations, because enough has already been written about the watch. Heuer
Heuer Bund
Heuer comparison
Heuer on the dash
Heuer Knirim



Orfina Porsche design Bund, Lemania 5100 Workhorse movement.
again here a link with more informatio about the watch
Orfina Porsch design Bund


Orfina Bund 3H dial and back

Hello Werner Rosier. That is one excellent watch. Thank you for the images.

Thanks for the reply Greg, it´s always good to hear from "the other side"...Never know whether it´s of interest, when one posts into the void!
In that case I´ll post a few more.

Here with the same movement, Lemania 5100, the Arctos Bund. They all look very much alike, that´s because the Bundeswehr had stringent specifications which they had to be made made to.


Tutima Bund



Well the two that are still evading me are the old cal 41 Tutima and Hanhart, which are nearly identical to the issued watches from the second world war, just a little smaller.

Thank you again, Werner. Your collection is excellent. I can assure you of considerable interest in Bund military timepieces around the world. Regretably, I'm not as familure with them as I would like to be.

Can you fill us in regarding the approximate dates that these timepieces were in use by the German govt?

Best regards,

Greg

Well Greg, that did take quiet some time researching the dates. There is one I haven´t got but I´ve dated and mentioned it anyway, It´s the very rare Tengler 5100BWL of which only 500 were issued.

Hanhart Typ 417-1957 (1956)?

Junghans J 88/0110-1959
Junghans J 88/0111-1960

Heuer-(Leonidas) 1550 SG -1967?
Heuer 1551 SGSZ ?

Orfina PD L5100- 1979
Arctos 5100 BWL - 1982

Tutima 5100 BWL2- 1983
Tengler 5100 BWL 1990? (so it says in K.Knirims book?)

Regards

Werner

As always, a very informative and interesting post. I too love these types of military watches but know little about them. Your knowledge is quite refreshing and very helpful.

Hallo Werner,
if there is any doubt about this unknown Watchmaker Tengler, here is the document!
The watch was issued for artillery astro true north observation like the Leonidas and Sternzeit Heuer, so not a pilots watch! The case is like the Sinn 156 and slightly different to Arctos and Porsche/Orfina. I visited Mr Tengler and could verify the story.
greetings Konrad Knirim
www.knirim.de

Hello Konrad,
thanks for the document, it´s strange that Tengler used that old case and round pushers in 1990, considering Tutima used a better case and protected pushers from 1983! But who are we to question their decision!
Regards Werner

Well at least I managed to get myself the early Bundeswehr Hanhart Cal.42-51 Type 417 E
two pushbutton chrono.

quote:

so not a pilots watch! The case is like the Sinn 156 and slightly different to Arctos and Porsche/Orfina. I visited Mr Tengler and could verify the story.
greetings Konrad Knirim

There was a debate on a German Forum about the Tengler, whether or not the Tengler was issued solely as a "sidereal" watch...Well apparantly not!
Another interesting fact...

Here an excert from a mail I recieved.

(1) While I have great respect for Konrad Knirim, I have noticed that there are frequently small errors in his information (both in his book, which I have, and in his online correspondence). For example, in the quote you attached:
- the Tengler is not a pilots watch (correct).
- the case is like the Sinn 156 (incorrect)... the case is like the Sinn 157, and this case is common to the Arctos (not slightly different from the latter).
- the Tengler has the same case as the Arctos only the dial is slightly different.

(2) These small errors are not a big issue, IMO, because there is not 100% availability of all information, but Knirim's book and other sources of information, such as the W. A. Manning ('brownsnout') online guides to the Heuer BUND and the PD-Orfina BUND, are filled with omissions and errors.

(3) Personally, I find that the online sources of information create a false sense of 'truth' and certainty and for this reason I have mostly done a lot of exhaustive research myself (I have, or have just sold, virtually everything issued to the modern Bundeswehr), and this is why I know that the Knirim and Manning sources are not to be taken as 'gospel'. I recently researched the printing of new replacement (i.e. fake) dials for the Heuer BUND and discovered that many (perhaps most) examples of this watch for sale today have dubious replacement dials (and hand-sets).

I have most of the documents that are available on the Tengler. I have attached then all as a single PDF.

The most important issue for me is this: nowhere in any of the documents that I've seen is there reference to the Tengler being adjusted to 'sternzeit/sidereal' time. The only specification that is mentioned (beyond the standard requirements) is that the movement be "regulated to a very high/fine degree". Have a look on page 4 of the attached PDF.

Hi Werner

Could you please advise who provided the advice you reproduced in your post? Are you able to send a copy of the PDF mentioned in the extract of the message you received from the unnamed source (I have sent you a separate email with my contact details)?

Best regards, Ken

Hello ken,
the pdf file has been sent to you, and the advice came from a fellow member of another Mil watch forum and Watch Dealer in Germany. For the time being I´d rather not publicise his name without asking him!

I managed to get the latest three watches issued to the German Bundeswehr, a divers watch; Armbanduhr technischer Taucherdienst (Wristwatch, technical Diving Service) NSN 6645-12-352-2921.




...and the two Infantrist der Zukunft(Soldier of the Future)

The C3027

and the second Type C3027




These three close another gap in my Bund collection.
Here´s a rough translation of what Konrad Knirim wrote about the watches;

Watchs of the Bundeswehr: Infantrymen of the Future

Hello friends,
Here is some information to the equipment and newer watches that the army of the Bundeswehr use:

Infantrist der Zukunft (Soldier of the future) is a project for personal protection and improvement of the army infantry. The total system responsibility lies with the manufacturer EADS. Current system status (2006), the IdZ-based system that is currently being delivered to the armed forces. '
In addition, equipment has been defined for the 'soldier in action' (SiE). 15,000 of these watches were procured, and are sometimes visible on Afghanistan photos ..

- Bundeswehr issued watch 2002, NSN 6645-12-358-2674 for, infantryman of the future '(Future Soldier) and, soldier in action' (SiE), built by Tutima Ref 728-06, Miyota Cal T241, Titanium housing and Saphisglas. The program "Future Soldier" is to develop new techniques and materials for the equipment of the soldier, the first test missions in Kosovo.

-Bundeswehr issued watch-2005, NSN 6645-12-358-2674, for the infantryman of the future '(Future Soldier) or a soldier in action' (SiE) of the army, built by Tutima Ref 728-07, Miyota Cal . T250 titanium case and Saphisglas. Forces in Afghanistan are equipped with these watches at the moment


See also: http://www.knirim.de/xbund.pdf

The watches shown are not intended for the Air Force, so not pilot's watches and not even waterproof! A member of the KSK, 'special forces' told me that his comrades preferably use waterproof watches from Suunto.

. Regards / Regards / Salute Konrad Knirim
. konrad.knirim @ t-online.de
PS: Take a look at my books on: German and British Military Watches
. http://www.knirim.de

Another bit of useful information that I have recieved; Only 396 pieces were issued to the german forces, then they went on to the second version.
If anyone is interested in obtaining one of these rare pieces, here´s one on ebay at the moment Bund-728-26 ;

Well I got my long lost Tengler, of which only 500 were made and issued, in fact I found two of these rare birds in one month and bought them both off course
The only thing missing is the Leather case with the star map etc (I haven´t given up hope though!), which can be seen in Konrad Knirims picture below!

If you´d like to read a bit about them, then open the links with a google translator.

Here are the watches;
Bundeswehr Uhren
Tengler in der Bucht[/url[url=http://www.flying-time.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=4326&hilight=tengler]Tengler "Sternzeit"[/url[url=http://www.flying-time.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3862&hilight=tengler]Frage ORFINA Box

now the twins







And here is the paperwork to the Tengler

I used to limit myself to military watches made no later than 1945, but my interets slowly crept across that self-imposed chronological line. I recently picked up this Hanhart 417 ES, to compliment my Hanhart 417. I am still not clear which is the "rarer." Thanks, Joe

...and the Hanhart 417. Thanks, Joe

Well done on your latest acquisition Joe, the 417E (chromed brass case)is seen more often, the 417ES is the same watch but with stainless Steel case and is considered rarer. I´m still on the lookout for one myself
Did you find yourself one of these, as I was talking to someone last night, who claims to have 4 or 5 of them

Hi Werner,
Not yet, but you certainly have my attention!
Thanks,Joe