Hello everyone,

This is my first posting on this forum and I know I can get some help here! I have done a lot of reading on the WW1 RFC Cockpit watches and love the threads on the brand codes.
I have just acquired a Hamilton Model 22 Chronometer and I have several questions regarding its age and purpose.
I do know Hamilton made thousands of chronometers during WW2 for the war effort and most went to the Navy (gimbaled and non gimbaled) a few hundred went to the Canadian Navy and about 420 went to the Army Air force.

My chronometer's movement states the year 1942 and the serial number is CF23915. On the rear case nomenclature it reads

CHRONOMETER WATCH
MFR'S PART NO. 37615
SERIAL NO. AF/45 - D - 202
P.O. N.O. (33-038) 45-13085 - AF
HAMILTON WATCH COMPANY

This watch sounds to me as issued in 1945 as the rear case lid shows. But the movement is from 1942. Also the small wooded case it came is is different that the usual inner boxes from the Navy's issued non gimbaled chronometer. It has a larger silver plaque that has setting instructions. The plaque slightly overlaps the viewing portal on the top.

Can anyone tell me what I have here?
Is it an original Army Air force Issue during WW2?
Is it a re case after WW2 and the Air force continued to use my piece?
I tried posting photos but the file size was too big...sorry. Thank you for your help.

It is hard to tell for sure. A 1942 movement in a 1945 or 1946 case housed in a non-standard box suggests that it could be a marriage of put together parts to take advantage of the high prices these bring these days. Or, after the war Hamilton and other companies sold off surplus stock they had been making for the contracts when the contracts were cancelled. Rather than simply throw away such nice timepieces they assembled the parts they had on hand and sold them to anyone who wanted to buy them. The 45 in the data insciption simly means the contract for ordering that batch was issued in 1945 but deliveries often kept coming under such contracts for a year or two afterwards on such military contracts. On the other hand, if it is all original, it is a toss up as to whether it saw any service because the peace treaty in Europe was signed on May 7, 1945 and the one with Japan was signed on September 2. If this particular one was ordered early on, sometime in 1945, there would have been a time lag between the order and delivery to the military, and then a longer time lag for it to be delivered to a unit where it would be used. It is possible it could have been used for a very short time, but it is perhaps more likely that it was part of the large amount of materiel that was being manufactured or still in the supply line to the operational units when the war ended. Or, it could be entirely post war.

Hello Michael,

Here is a pic of what what probably resembles the plaque on your wooden case.

A "confidential" record was reprinted in Whitney's "MILITARY TIMEPIECES" book.
-The Hamilton document titled "THE RECORD OF HAMILTON PRODUCTS DELIVERED FOR WAR USE" states that 420 units of "21 jewel Chronometer Watches (unmounted)" were issued to the Army Air Forces.

My personal belief is that there were many more than 420 produced, but were post war "surplus".

Ron

The AAF padded wood case also has a unique locking latch.

. . . . both the watch and padded case would have been issued in a thin cardboard box.
-My watch case's s.n. is 216, and yours is 202. They were probably produced at about the same time.

My movement's s.n. is "2F23511".

Hello everyone,
Yes, Ronald that is the exact case I have. I guess our watches were produced probably within a few days of each other. So the verdict is that our watches were post WW2 and not part of the first 420 ordered by the Army Air force? That makes sense I guess. the gentleman I purchased this watch from has had this piece in his families possession for many years and I thought this is a mixed match piece to make more desirable for collectors. He knows of this watch in his family for at least 40 yrs. Was this particular piece mixed and matched about 40 yrs ago for collectors?

Are these pieces valuable, even the ones that did not see any war time and were extras? I just saw one sell on e-bay last week for $1300. It was a 1943 movement with the same wooden box. It also had the thin cardboard box with it but the serial numbers did not match. I purcased my chronometer for $920. Did I get the hose?

Hello Michael,

Let us assume that examples with case numbers under 420 must be part of the original 420 watches that Hamilton issued to the AAF during wartime.
-However, I don't know how the movement s.n.'s fit into dates of production. Is there a reference somewhere that gives production dates based on movement s.n.'s?

I think you did well with your purchase. These eBay auction prices are several years old. They are ALL for this AAF model, with unique padded case. :
Nov05_$1026 (s.n.'s unknown, it did include the thin cardboard box)
May06_$1212 (case s.n. 253, movement s.n. 2F20790)
May06_$2130 (case s.n. 1035, movement s.n. unknown, it did include the thin cardboard box)
Mar08_$2114 (s.n.'s unknown)

For $750, I feel fortunate to have found my example from a short-lived "Buy It Now" eBay auction, in Feb05. (case s.n. 216, movement s.n. 2F23511, it did include the thin cardboard box).

Regards,
Ron

Ronald, I appologize for the delayed reply. I believe I read that members of the national can request in the reaserch department information regarding the production date and purchase date of these chronometers by serial number. I am not a member and can not pay $70 just for this information alone.

I would love to assume that all numbers under 420 are in the original batch ordered by the Army Air Force. But how would the rear case information play along with that idea. Given that both our rear case lids give the order date of 1945. Hamilton started making these chronometers for the US military in 1942..correct?

I hope you are right and that we both have one of the original batch that was ordered. What date is on your movement....mine is 1942.

I would love to exchange photos with you of my watch so we can compare and learn. These chronomters facinate me. If you wish send me your e-mail address to mjpayant@msn.com and I can send some photos, Cheers! Thanks all!!!
I would really like to see more examples of the Army Airforce Issued chronometers. We have all seen numerous examples of the Navy's mounted and non mounted versions but many the Airforce. Thanks again.

Sorry Ronald for the delay in some photos of my Hamilton. Here are some.

Rear Case nominclature

Movement.

I am looking to see any examples of the Army Airforce issued Hamilton 22's that have the order placed date prior to 1945. If anyone has one or access to photos of the rear case of an example I would love to see it. I am trying to confirm the theory that the original 420 Army Airforce issued chronometers were all ordered in 1945. Ronald Canaday, what do you think of this?

Hello,

My ignorance on this subject is boundless, but to me, a 1945 contract seems likely.

Mr. Canaday,
We have conversed about the value of our Hamilton Model 22 Army AirForce versions. In one of your posts you listed several that have sold, when they sold and the selling price. There is one one on eBay right now item # 160493092556
The bid is up to $900 right now and it still has almost 3 days till bidding end. What it has going for it is the Army Airforce inner case with all the orginal hardware and instruction plate and military noted movement. But IT DOES NOT HAVE any military nominclature on the rear case. I'm sure that will hurt it's value some.I wonder which number this one was in the series. I just wanted you add this piece to your records as I know you keep track of the selling prices. I think I will start doing the same. Hope all is well. Mike.

(Just copy and paste the item number on this post and drop it on any ebay search field and it will bring you right to the listing)

I believe that Hamilton Model 22 Chronometer Watch CF23915 was finished and sold on 8-10-1945

Aloha All

Just to add to the confusion I have movement #2F2073
HAMILTON WATCH CO.
MODEL 22-21 JEWELS
ADJ TO TEMP. & 6 POS.
MADE IN THE U.S.A.

CASE # 1337946 KEYSTONE BASE METAL

CASE BACK
BUREAU OF SHIPS

U.S.NAVY

N334-1941

CHRONOMETER WATCH


note the N is in a circle

Aloha Scott

Mr. Cifrulak, How does one come by this information you have given me about my chronometer. Are you a member of the official Hamilton forum? Thank you very much for that little tid bit. The more information we have is more pieces to a mystery. Thanks again, Mike

Hi Mike,
I'll send you a private email.
Burt

Thank you Burt, I look forward to that. Mike