Good aft Evrbdy,

i own a single pusher Hanhart, rotating bezel, s/n 114340, somebody else owns a double pushers s/n 114530,rotating bezel.

As per my experience those are the highest s/n for a single pusher and the lowest for a double pusher.

Anybody of you owns or is aware on any serial n. included in the this gap?

tnks rgds
Enzo

I have a single pusher Hanhart with a s/n of 109601.

Hallo Enzo, Greg and Hanhart friends,
its interesting, as I did not see this number difference before. All my Hanharts and those I have photos from, respect this border and I do not have one within this gap.
Those numbers collected by Ulric of England (23) respect this border too!

But I have one with double pusher without rotating bezel with movement no. 1086 and it has 'Made in Germany' inside.
The after war items with symmetric pushers have 4 digit numbers like 29xx or 96yy.

Greetings from Konrad Knirim
http://www.knirim.de

Hallo Hanhart friends,
I just got a mail from Bernd Walter, he wants to sell an one-pusher:

Wiwiko9702@aol.com
boden edelstahl,wassergeschütz,stossfest,nr.110572

Please contact if you like.
Konrad

Enzo,

As always, you are into rare and interesting items. I hope I can be of greater assistance next time.

Many thanks to Lau Siew Ming and noted author Konrad Knirim for sharing their thoughts (and a valuable lead).

Best regards,

Greg

Hallo Lau, Konrad, Greg,

tnks for your interest, for hoisting and for your answers!
I haven't progressed until now but i am optimistic and whatever i will find i will inform.
If Wikiko wants to contact me i will be glad.(enzo001@flashnet.it)

tnks rgds
Enzo

I have number 124322, no rotating bezel but offset pushers (konrad has pictures of it). I have 3 or for others in a safe in Germany and I will check the numbering.... as soon as I can.

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Hallo Oliver,
good to hear from you !
Tnks for the info which is useful anyway as we at GermanMilitaryWatch.com (with the kind permission of Chapter 185) are updating the database and the Galleries.
I hope that your safe will reserve the so much sought surprice with the ''missing link'' P/N's
so please let me know at your convenience.
tnks rgds

enzo

Number 103984 was seen on sale at eBay

This is in fact the earliest of the Hanhart 1 pushers with the pointer on the bezel I recon 1939-1942 and it would have been used by pilots mostly. No one ever convinced me on the issue procedures for Hanharts and Tutimas but I would assume that this is in all likelyhood a battle of Britain survivor.

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Hallo Everybody,
Oliver, thank you for your follow on the post.
If i correctly understood the content of the second part of it you have doubts on what is widely reported on the issuing of these watches to military personnel, such as these watches (Glashutte and Hanharts) where personally purchased by the pilots ( Only The KM Hanharts were officially procured by the Navy, Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine). I personally share same doubts but as there are no documents around showing direct purchases from RLM for such watches i have no way to believe that this ever happened.
BUT, as always happens, there are exceptions...and i have an Hanhart , whose back has writings'' Eigentum' (government)', ''Flying School of Luftwaffe'' (naturally in German language, which i translated for your convenience) and that is an original engraving, which clearly shows that also the Hanharts (?Some?)belonged to the State .

tnks rgds
Enzo

Even with a lack of documentation I find it very hard to believe that both manufacturers adapted exactly the same layout for the dials, pushers, equal sizes with Hanhart moving away from the single pusher version if there was not a government regulatio (Vorschrift) and the question that imposes itself is why would the government influence the design of 'private' watches. There is also a numbering on the outside opf the cases which makes issuing feasible. I guess we will have to try to get a look at some of the military passports (Wehrpass) of known wearers of these watches to see weather any of them contain the issue of such a watch. (It was a common procedure to register military issued watches (if issued to one bearer) in the Wehrpass. There was the option for the bearer to actually aquire this issued watch during service, which would then also be marked in the Wehrpass.

Hallo,

your considerations are very substantial and i understand that you have speculated on the subject quite a bit!
GH and HH are different in mvmt caliber and also belong to two different ''schools'' re engineering design but that is less important for what is concerned the'' outside''.
It is very true indeed that the two dials are using the same layout and i would like to add that the dials Manufacturers at the time were several, cfr....

http://germanwatch.proboards43.com/index.cgi?action=dis...ad=1131616881&page=1

but they all conform to the same pattern and even the small details are exactly the same, all but one manufacturer who introduced some minor changes.
This seems to show that most of them used the same drawing to print dials.
RLM or OKK used to issue general pattern design whenever a new object was under supply contract . A sample of such a spec ( FL22602 for a Kienzle) is attached .


The manufacturing details were left to the Manufacturer , at least this is assumed by the documents i have seen so far and I do not know of the existence of others.

So it could be assumed that all these dial Manufacturers produced dials with the identical layout under the directions of the wristwatch' Manufacturer (HH and GH) who introduced the style derivated
by the specs for the ''big brothers'' without the direct influence of Military Commands.(Except the HH KM,but these are late contracts)

In that it is useful the Konrad' article which i attach.

http://www.knirim.de/rlm1.pdf

For what is concerned cases there the matter it is even more complicated and would need a special
post by itself.

For what is concerned Soldbuchs and watches there are infact evident findings of HH s/n's annotations on the Soldbuchs and the relevant watches but no proofs yet that it was a Service assignment better than a private purchase because nobody has ever find an HH or GH Government contract or an order like it has been found for the Lange & Sohne etc..
But as usual all of us are hoping to find sometime
something to better understand!

tnks rgds

enzo

Hi Enzo,

Thank you for your continued observations. The more we share information the more we learn.

I enjoyed the link to your Luftwaffe Hanhart. I have never seen one marked as yours is. From the few words of German I know, it appears to be from a Luftwaffe school of some sort?

Best regards,

Greg

Greg,

thanks for your post and it is indeed true that the more we share the more we learn.
For what the writings on that Hanhart are concerned literally i would traduce
''Luftwaffe'' ''Flight instructor school'' or simpler ''Flying school''.
Unfortunately i am not fluent in German as well and i do not have way to research if there was at the time an Instructors flying school.
Surely there was a Flying school somewhere , maybe more then one.
Konrad will know for sure!
What is remarkable on the watch is that is one of the few example of a watch assigned to a particular department/Airforce organization and not to a person nor to an general Armed Force such as the KM'.
It is more like in his usage to the E-Stelle' timepieces that strictly belonged to the Rechlin Research center.
As you see we started this line of posts from the Hanhart s/n' had we have gone that far to Rechlin!
thanks you for hoisting,
rgds

Enzo

That is interesting, finding a Hanhart in a Soldbuch is as good as a government contract. Private purchases would not be in the Soldbuch, here only officialy issued watches would be marked. What I was refering to was the possibility for a serviceman to purchase the oficcally issued watch in which case this would also have been noted in the Soldbuch. Privatly aquired watches from elsewhere would not be noted.

Greetings all. Enzo asked me to view this thread. I have a cal. 40 Hanhart with rotating bezel and a copy its owner's soldbuch, amongst other documents. It shows the pilot being issued the watch in May of 1944. I will post some photos of the soldbuch if anyone is interested. Thanks, Joe

Hi Joe. Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure I speak for many of us in expressing interest in seeing your Hanhart and original soldbuch.

(For those collectors who are not that familure with German militaria; a Soldbuch was a combination photo-i.d., paybook, and general military record for each member of the German military.)

Best regards,

Greg

Thanks Greg. I have been reading for quite a while but never posted. Here is the Hanhart and a copy of the page of the "Soldbuch" with the serial number of the watch.

Hallo Evrbdy,

i want to thank Joe for his post, for showing his all-original Single Pusher and relevant Soldbuch which is unique with the Hanhart annotation. That surely represents another piece of the mosaic in understanding how the HH e GH Chronograph entered the service. In spite of the high number, over 30k, of these watches produced there were no many findings of such Soldbuch annotations around!
rgds

Enzo

Thanks Joe.

As stated by Enzo, you have a real treasure!

I hope you will consider additional comments and information in the future.

Best regards,

Greg

Hallo,

tnks to everybody for checking this post!
In my intent to find some sort of understanding the Hanhart's s/n regulating law I had today another encounter out of the files which confuses me even more! :

s/n 114541, single pusher, fixed bezel!!!

http://germanwatch.proboards43.com/index.cgi?action=dis...24&page=2#1120547899

which is after a single pusher , turning bezel and before a double pusher, turning bezel!

I am expecting every kind of additional surprices now!

rgds

Enzo