IHC185,
I got my hands on an old Waltham that is almost identical to the black Elgin Pershings. I can't find any reference to this watch in any books or online. I got this watch from a guy in Scotland this week. Here is some information that I do know: 1929 Waltham, model 1907, 26987685, 3/0s, grade 365, 15 jewels and it's running. As you can see from the picture that shows the back of the dial it is made of metal. The sub-second is flat not sunken. The Elgin version is enamel. I went with a thick black band with white stitching. I think it looks pretty cool. I am going to the local watchmaker today to try and find a set of period correct hands. Is this watch a fake possibly? I have never seen or heard about another one of these. If it's a fake how come there are not more floating around out there? I have posted this topic on a couple other forums and everybody is stumped. Any help would be great!

I just dropped this one off at my local professional watch shop who does a lot of work on old ones like this. Said that he has never seen one before. He is going to put it back together for me with period correct white hands and fix the stem. Should be 100% when I get in back in a few weeks. We could not find any reference to this watch in his books. He said that a 1930's Waltham material book might help more, his was a 1948 book.

I like the way the watch band you picked out goes with the dial. I have only seen the Elgins, myself. In any event, these are not actual military watches, though it is possible they may have been sold at jewelry stores near army bases where military looking watches might have been popular.

I thought that the issue of the Elgins not being a military watch was put to rest in the thread "Elgin Miilitary 1918" currently on the top of this forum? It was suggested on another forum that Elgin and Waltham both were in competition/coroporation for the US government to supply watches. Is this not a possibility? Obviously Elgin won but is it not possible that some of the prototype Walthams survived or were shipped to foreign markets? I did procure this watch from a guy in Scotland. I would love to see proof either way.

I have been in contact with the gentleman that I bought this watch from that lives in Scotland. I asked if he could possibly share any information he had on the watch with me. I will quote his reply.

"Hi, Thank you for your email, I was advised that the watch had something to do with the RAF, but I can try and find some more information on the watch. I was advised to restore this watch myself as it was very rare, I will try my best for you. Kind regards Leo"

I have an open mind, but a watch without any markings from the military it was supposed to have been procured by and issued by does not make much sense when you consider how well and carefully they always marked all of their other timepieces as well as all of their other equipment. When I see one that has military markings such as the couple that are illustrated in the other thread my reaction is that these are one of two possibilities: there seem to be very few of these that are so marked which makes me think that either the U.S. military did procure a few of these, perhaps on an experimental basis; or, the cases or the case backs are either replacements from a real military watch or their markings are faked (and there are many cases where we are seeing unscrupulous people out there faking military markings on watches to increase their sale value).

What I would need to convince me is to see a copy of a military procurement contract or similar documentation that proves these were actually ordered by, purchased by, and issued by, a miliary - whether U.S. or British or some other.

quote:

It was suggested on another forum that Elgin and Waltham both were in competition/coroporation for the US government to supply watches. Is this not a possibility? Obviously Elgin won but is it not possible that some of the prototype Walthams survived or were shipped to foreign markets? I did procure this watch from a guy in Scotland. I would love to see proof either way.


I do not see how this would be possible for Waltham and Elgin to be in a "competition", as Elgin were supplying these Pershing black dial Star watches 12 years before this watch movement was made.
Another myth bites the dust.

The Waltham Pershing dials may well have been in stock for a long time after WWI.

These watches are from 1927-29, there has been no proof of these dials dating to WW1.
Where are all the WW1 Waltham Pershing watches?