While inquiring about a pocket watch collection, which was a bust, I located several Ham Chrono - one model 21 and 5 model 22's.

I have searched and read the posts here.

I have no hands on experience with them and want to know what to look for in purchasing one of each.

There is one empty box, an outer box I suppose. Could it be for either the #21 or #22?

I have no pics or serial #'s. All are in wooden cases and the cases and dials are generally in good condition.

How do you get the watch out of the inner box?

I have seen model 22's for $900 at the watch meetings, but they were not selling. Any advice on prices?


Charlie

I would suggest running a search on eBay - of any of these timepieces that are open for bids and of completed sales. This will give you an idea of what people have bid for these w/in the past 30 days.

I'm not familure with the Model 21, maybe someone can help us out with that.

Originally, the Model 22 was issued by the U.S. Navy. They came in a big pocket watch type case and also in a gimbal type case. These each had wooden protective cases. Post WWII, some of Chronomiter Watches in the pocket watch type cases were re-issued by the Army and had the Navy marks milled off and U.S. Army marks added. Thus,I would consider a Navy marked example to be closer to original issue. Though, an Army marked example is also perfectly legit a good investment.

The mahogany transport boxes have been copied in recent years. The originals I have seen so far were made by Regent Specialties Company, Rochester, New York.

These are great timepieces. I don't think you will regret buying one or more of them.

Best regards,

Greg

Hello Charles,

Hamilton 21's sell for $ 2000 - 2500 depending on condition.

Hamilton sold 2 versions of Model 22

gimballed version: $ 1100 watch & inner box
outer box add $ 200

non-gimballed version: $ 1100 watch & both inner and outer boxes

Andy Dervan

I would add $200-300 USD to the price estimates. $1500 for a non-gimbled M22 is starting price. Early M21's in exceptional condition are going for $2400-2800.

Here is a M22 ungimbled on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HAMILTON-Model-22-Chronometer-Deck-...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here is a gimbled version: I think the "Buy it now" is wishful thinking by Buccaneer$4000.00!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/HAMILTON-22-Ships-Chronometer-Mahog...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks guys.

Just the kind of info I was looking for.


Charlie

Greg mentioned that some Ham Chronometers that were ordered by the navy were subsequent milled and re-issued to the Army.

Does anyone know why (or have a guess) as to how the Army used these?

Charlie

In 1948, the non-gimbaled version of the model 22, was withdrawn from naval service. A number of them were sold/transferred to the U.S. Army transportation Corps, and the remainder was turned over to the war Surplus Administration for disposal. The words "Bureau of ships" and "U.S. Navy" were milled off, and U.S. Army" was added. These were used for Army maritime shipping, or the now referred to as the Military Sealift Command. The U.S. Army has a great deal of shipping and boat platforms that require accurate time pieces to navigate with. This particular Hamilton was very portable. I have seen them at the Smithsonian on display with several arctic explorer exhibits. They used these since they were more manageable for stowage purposes, and could be carried inside the clothing for temperature regulation.

Thanks Matthew.

I was in the Army but did not know they had ships.


Charlie

Somebody told me that they have more floating flatforms then the U.S. Navy. I don't know about that, but they do have more landing craft then the Navy/Marine Corps. The Army is huge!

Market feed back.

The guy at the gunshow decided not to buy the model 22 in the flat box. The milled off navy markings and new Army markings was the reason given.

It sold the next week at our Chapter meeting - for $925. It was a nice example in a nice inner box.

Below is the Hamilton Model 22, Size 35 Chronometer from a Hamilton (Feb. 1949) Catalog.

Robert

Thanks for the interesting Hamilton add, Robert. Watchmakers charged with adjusting the exact specifications of railroad watches often kept fine navigation chronometers as their time source. I suspect many of them WWI and WWII war surplus.

Best regards,

Greg

Greg,
Thanks, What is the accuracy of the Chronometers relative to the "Railroad Watches"?

I served 42 months on the USS DUPONT DD-941 in the early 60's, but don't recall seeing a chronometer.

We had a beautiful brass "Ships Clock". The Boatswain Mate's keep it really shining bright.

Robert

Robert. A navigation chronometer would have been far more accurate than a railroad watch. Depending upon the era, the time of a chronometer was periodically checked by radio or telegraph time signals for exact time.

Clearly, excellent and well adjusted railroad watches were often of sufficient accuracy for navigation. Some, were fitted out as navy deck watches and aircraft navigation watches, like the Hamilton 4992B. However, most railroad watches were kept in a pocket, moved around alot, and subjected to other variables. In contrast, a chronometer was in a gimbled box and was more safe from outside factors. Other design factors made the ships chronometer more accurate as well, but we could go on all day about these things - they are that interesting.

Best regards,

Greg

Greg,
Thanks for the very informative comments.

Robert

The value, and prices of these chronometers are increasing rapidly as their historical significance is realized. Marvin E. Whitney’s references to THE SHIPS CHRONOMETER and MILITARY TIMEPIECES are both good sources of information, and contain assembly information. Like all collectables, condition and perhaps serial number are an influence for market value. There is a fella in Utah who restores outer and inner boxes to perfection using original hardware. I would also be concerned with service history if it is available. Chronometer technicians are getting scarce. I would like to recommend Larry Cutsinger as the authority for these wonderful relics.

Another Hamilton Chronometer (36 Size) from a Hamilton (1938) Catalog.

Robert

I would like to add to the constructive comments, that to be aware of mis-matched box and chronometer parts. Look for obvious discoloration between parts and mis-matched serial numbers.

I now own two of these. One is without the outer box and I have my suspicions about the authenticity of the inner box (Maybe yes, maybe no). This watch came with the original shipping tub.

The other, I bought at the National, with both boxes and I have no doubt about the authenticity. The outer box is extremely good but it does show minor signs of aging. The inner box is pristine.

And here's something different. The 2nd one is marked "US Army," and is the first one I have ever seen so marked. It does not look like anything has been milled off. The engraving is cut very, very deep. Were any of these army watches made specifically for the army?

Sorry, I have no photos. Both are at the watch shop, ready to be serviced as soon as time and weather allow (it's been too hot and humid down there to get us motivated for such a project).

Anyone know anything about Army-marked Model 22's? Numbers... rarity?

The Hamilton war production of model 22 chronometer watches is as follows:

11636 mounted Navy
313 mounted Canadian Navy
5 mounted Maritime Com. for Russia
9815 unmounted Navy
420 unmounted Army Air Force

The numbers above are for WWII. Of course, they continued to produce the model 22 for many years after the war.

Don

Thanks Don....

Help me out a moment. I'm new to these types of watches.

When you say "unmounted"... what exactly does that mean?

Mine is in Gimbals and has the Army markings on the brass bottom that holds the watch in the gimbals. It is not in the base-metal case.