Internet Horology Club 185
Japanese military 40 sec time switch for ??

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https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/990103944/m/3951011881

June 04, 2006, 00:35
Anthony Crisci
Japanese military 40 sec time switch for ??
A 40 second timer wound and set with the larger knob beneath the left side of the dial.
It may be started and stopped at any time by the smaller knob to the right of this one.
When the timer hits zero it closes contacts .The timer has a platform escapement that runs fast enough to remind me of an Elgin jitterbug but not as fast. The escapement also looks out of place as if someone took it from a carriage clock or a vault timer movement to use in this but it is clearly original and fitted to this unit. It is marked as usual F S and A R as well but nothing in Japanese. This timer has the ability to electrically activate something either manually or timed and if timed then for any pre determined period of time from 1 to 40 seconds with accuracy.
And I haven't the slightest clue what it was used for ,just that it was out of a downed aircraft


June 05, 2006, 00:02
Greg Crockett
An interesting relic. Thanks for posting it.

Would it be possible to post some close-up pictures of the markings on the dial and the data plate?

Best regards,

Greg
June 05, 2006, 01:56
Anthony Crisci
Thanks,Sure here they are.
I wish I had the main data plate
I have a call into my uncle for it.
I cut and pasted the others so that
there show better.


June 05, 2006, 01:57
Anthony Crisci
switchplates


June 05, 2006, 01:59
Anthony Crisci
Four Way switch


June 05, 2006, 02:00
Anthony Crisci
Inside unit with platform out


June 05, 2006, 02:00
Anthony Crisci
Platform from unit


June 05, 2006, 17:21
Jim Hester
I'm stumped. Hopefully someone will be able to translate the kanji and they will give a good clue. I can't think of anything on an aircraft that would need a 40 second count-down timer.
June 05, 2006, 19:36
Anthony Crisci
Same here,for all I know its a genuine WW2 Japanese Air Force coffee timer Smile
June 06, 2006, 20:11
Anthony Crisci
A photo of the stamping on the timers brass case.
Also, "Sanyosha" is on some components .


June 07, 2006, 23:56
Naoki Imaizumi
Maybe I can be of some assistance...
It is a 40 seconds " drop time counter " ( written on the dial face...bomb is most likely implied) made by a well known alarm clock company in Tokyo called Touyou tokei ( note a company name designation on the brass plate...from the left to ritht reads, Tokyo...Touyou company logo...followed by the company name)
On the dial face, next to the number 0 to the left, there is another line which reads " termination / stop "
As for the switch plates writings...from the left top to the bottom reads...indicator light, of the three horizontal lines, the first line from the left reads...emergency action control, the second line is...function mode change switch, and the last line is... drop time control.
Regarding the 4 way switch, the very top reads drop and retreat, to the right...retreat, to the left...drop, unfortunately the bottom character is hidden behind a dial hand.
It might have been used to drop used coffee filters instead of bombs. Big Grin
June 08, 2006, 00:33
Anthony Crisci
Thank You Very Much ,that is of great assistance, I retook the switch photo
and ask if I could impose on you to translate the bottom character as well. I might guess it means something like off or stop but I am not sure.
Drop time,well if it is not for dumping coffee filters Smile then it might be
a part of a bombing computer system? Any ideas ? I also have a question
about the use of the word retreat ,meaning to withdraw from a dangerous
position ?. Or is there a meaning lost in the translation from Japanese
to English ,maybe a mechanical meaning ?.

Thanks Again
Anthony


June 08, 2006, 20:56
Naoki Imaizumi
The last character at the bottom is "to shut off" rather than to stop ( there is a subtle nuance difference in Japanese...)
All the translation above is very literal... I will be sure to do some research about this instrument and will let you know as soon as I find something.
Best Wishes,
June 08, 2006, 23:44
Anthony Crisci
Great,Thank You Again !. I just noticed had I left out one whole switch, the lower character is the same as the "to shut off" on the 4way ,I can guess the top might be "to turn on" but above this is another line of characters. Maybe these hold some clue ?

Best Regards
Anthony


June 14, 2006, 18:42
Naoki Imaizumi
Anthony,
Soon you will be writing a book in Japanese!
It says " main open / close instrument " ( still it doesn't say exactly what!) " engage " in red and " shut off " in black.
I checked the cockpit layout for Mitsubishi zero early model as well as the later model and I didn't see any instrument similar to this one.( I did have the photos of the cockpit because I was researching into the airplane clock that was installed in those...my main area of interest...) Do you know, by any chance, which plane this instument came from?
All the best.
June 14, 2006, 20:42
Anthony Crisci
Hello Naoki

Thank You, yes, I am picking up cockpit Japanese fairly fast with your help lol
Too bad it does not hint at what it was dropping or operating. As far as what type of aircraft the description sounded more like that of a small bomber or transport,” a twin engine aircraft in the jungle" were the words I remember. An instrument? That’s interesting, what would need to be opened and closed. And why 40 seconds, an odd length of time and not very long,, but maybe long enough for a filming a target or a bomb run? Do you think the instrument could be a camera or would an aircrew member have done that with hand held cameras? I think I will do as you are and try to find interior photos of Japanese aircraft as well and maybe one of us will find this. Thanks again and I will keep you posted and please tell me if you come up with more on your end

Best Regards
Anthony
June 15, 2006, 13:41
Greg Crockett
An interesting thread which I look forward to seeing more of - and still so many questions regarding this timer. Bombs, photographs, ?????

I can't thank Naoki enough for stopping in to help us out with translations.

If anyone would like to post images of aircraft instrument panels showing clocks and timers, it would be invaluable as a refferance.

Best regards,
Greg
June 18, 2006, 22:36
Naoki Imaizumi
Hey Greg, Anthony!
The instrument in question is not from any of the Navy fighter planes nor Navy bombers, nor Army fighter planes, nor Army bomber planes...it can still be from an obscure plane?
Planes that I checked are:
Navy fighter planes - A5M1/2M, A6M2/M5C ( this is the famous zero type ), J2M1, N1K1, N1K2-J, A7M1, J5N1
Navy bombers - type 96 G3M, type 99 D3A1, D4Y1,G4M1, P1Y1, SB7A1
Army fighter planes - type 91, type 92, type95 K-10, type 97 K-27, K-43, K-44, K-61, K-83, K-84, K-94, K-100, K-102, K-106
Army bombers - K-2 type 93, K-21 type97, K-48 type 99, K-49 type100, K-51 type 99, K-67 type4
I will be very happy to post some photos ( if I can figure out how to do it... so far no success...). Therefore, if you don't mind, I will post some pictures at the Japanese military watch forum,( where I do know now how to post a photo!!), administerd by Sig and Lige Enzo. Incidentally, at that forum you will find a thread on an airplane clock with a type zero A6M2 instrumentation photo from the Mitsubishi museum in Japan.
Best Regards.
June 19, 2006, 16:28
Anthony Crisci
Dear Naoki

Wow you have been busy, I would love to see the photos but yes if you try to post a photo here that is larger then 640 x 480 pixels it will not work,you have to shrink them or use an outside photo host so I will look for them at the Japanese military watch forum . But Good News ! , the data plate was been found and is already on the way to me in the mail so maybe in a day or three we will know the answer with your help. As soon as I get it I will post it .

Kind Regards and Many Thanks again
Anthony
June 21, 2006, 18:52
Anthony Crisci
The Long Lost Data Plate.


June 22, 2006, 18:19
Naoki Imaizumi
Fantastic! This is what we are talking about!!
Your guess was very close, indeed...
Top line says ( from the left ) " bomb insepection camera ( type 2 ) control instrument " The second line says " number 49 ", the third line has 2 white circles, in one of them there is a faint inscription of a military seal ( very much standard practice for both Navy and Army - with different markings ), between two circles is the actual production date... " Shouwa " Japanese shouwa year...look closely with a magnifying glass, you may still see the number, production month , same thing...see whether you can make up the number. All these are also very standard entries for any military related products, including airplane clocks by Seikosha. The forth line says " Katsura seisaku jou ", which is the name of the plant and the last line adds the location " Tokyo, Oui ". You have a very unusual war time instrument at hand!! I wonder which plane had an instrument like this installed...
Best Wishes.
June 22, 2006, 19:29
Anthony Crisci
Thank You for your help again,that's great !, I wonder what kind of bomb needed a camera to inspect it unless it controlled a bombbay camera to film the drop. In anycase I think it narrows it down to a bomber unless Japan had a twin engine fighter, did they ?. Back to the plate, in both circles are stars with the left star being in a circle and the one on the right just a star with no circle. Is 49 a model number or a serial number ? In the two rectangles there might have been something in ink once but I cannot make anything out anymore. Maybe there would be a date on the inside of the brass timer case. I will take it apart this weekend and either tell you what I find or if I cannot understand it,photograph and post it .

Many Thanks Again and Best Regards
Anthony