upclose dial with mark:

Clearly marked as an English Made movement , typical English pattern as the other one is so I'm assuming that the seller is just wrong in that case, though it is an understandable error based on mistaken assumptions

If this is a case of it being a movement that was later installed with the dial and/or case - or vice versa - it is most likely a situation where it was simply a repair. However, I have noticed that as the value of military timepieces has risen (they used to be some of the least costly timepieces as there were few who appreciated them) that there seem to be an increasing number of timepieces that are 'Frankenwatches' made up from parts for the purpose of selling them as military timepieces to turn a profit. I am aware that there are countless crateloads of old timepiece parts around that are used for ordinary repairs, and that it would not be all that difficult for someone to use them to make up new timepieces from those old parts. And some of the more enterprising people who do this go to the added step of adding markings when they do not have a part with the expected military markings on the dial or case or movement. I am in no way saying that is what this is and I am not implying that if it is that this particular dealer is anything but someone who was taken in by such a seller, but it is the reason why I always take a hard look at military timepieces in the marketplace these days and am very fussy about the details needing to be correct.

I have never heard of a LeCoultre connection to F. Williamson. Although F. Williamson did own the Swiss Buren watch company during the WWI era.

When I have taken the dials off of F. Williamson watches I have found the Williamson name on the pillar plate with a Coventry address. This is because Williamson's factory was in coventry, although they used a London address on the dial for the prestige value.

F. Williamson military watches with the subsecond bit at 3 o'clock are well known.

I have some questions regarding this 8 day version for the RFC. I do know there was an obvious repair to the rear lid and it is a replacement along the way. It has the "A" over broad arrow mark but it is quite small. Much smaller than the usual Mark V rear case markings. Any information on the markings and the watch in general, like: Does this A and broad arrow look it can be "dated". When did they stop using the broad arrown on watches? Any help would be great.

Picture panned away for size judgement.

Close dial photo with military numbers. I will list these numbers in the Mark V letter code thread also.

Hello,

Bringing this thread back to the original post, here's an unusual watch that I obtained in a box of parts. It's lined up for restoration (if I ever get a winder that's wide enough to fit the stem, that is) but it is indeed a Williamson movement in a US made Elgin case (s/n: 375157)









I originally thought the movement and case had been put together but the movement sits very well in the case and the serial number is not a British Army F-suffixed number but a serial number: 317320, which matches the movement number. This is wholly consistent with Royal Naval practice of the WWI/WWII era. The P.W. marking is, according to Konrad Knirim's book, a Royal Naval designation of the WWI era to boot. The re-markings are interesting. In order they are: (1) P.W. 909; (2) M 1082/29; (3) 0 1082/29/40; (4) 0 1082/29/40/41. I presume that these markings attest to service in WWI, then issue in 1929 and reissue in 1940 and again in 1941. It may be coincidental but Williamson pocket watches were marked as obsolescent in 1929 as far as the British Army was concerned.

Regards,
Martin

P.S. FWIW, I think all the talk of these watches having a JLC connection is wishful thinking. The contract numbers deployed on WWI watches showed no continuity with the W.W.W. vocab letters, which were post-WWII.

Hello Michael Payant: it looks like you have a rather nice MK IVa RFC watch. I would suggest reposting your images in the MK V and MK IV post which is running on this forum. For what it's worth, the Broad Arrow A marking tended to differ by manufacturer.

Hi Martin:

Another example of an H. Williamson watch in an American made case is to be seen at the beginning of this post. Your example is the first one I have seen for Royal Navy markings. I would guess that your watch remained in service through WWI and WWII.

Another H. Williamson service watch in an American case. I believe this belonged to my dad's great uncle, a Chelsea Pensioner born around 1880. I would be very grateful if someone could tell me approximately when this watch was manufactured.

The case back.

The inside of the case.

And the movement.

Hello Marc and welcome!
These style typical of H. Williams are common and do come for sale frequently on line. Very nice looking watches as I have owned a few in the past. These watches would date in the WWI era from about 1914-1918. Quite tough to pinpoint an exact year but in that range. H Williamson may have even continued producing these after the war but not for long. Hope this helps you.

Thanks for the information, Michael. Much appreciated!