Hello everyone,

I have been thinking on purchasing a boxed Russian marine deck watch. I have made up my mind that I like the pocket watch cased style with the three tier carrying case. I know of two manufacturers that made these chronometers, Polet and Kirova. I have seen several on eBay and am a little leery to commit to purchase. Are these of the proper form? Can anyone assist me with the buying do’s and don’ts, what to look for and beware of on these Russian chronometers or deck watches. Some questions I have are:

1) Did these chronometers have radium filled numbers?
2) How do you date these chronometers?
3) Are there serial number data bases for these manufacturers?
4) Were there military issue and civilian purchase examples? If so, what is the difference?
5) What is the monetary worth of these chronometers? What price should I try to stay under?
6) Are they easy to service and find replacement parts for in the US?
7) Is the quality of one brand better than the other?
8) Why do most examples I see have that red wine color rear case back? Did this have something to do with the low light situations aboard naval or submarine vessels?

Sorry for so many questions but I really want to understand and be knowledgeable before I purchase. Thank you all for any help, comments and even a trustworthy source to purchase from. Does anyone have an example they would consider selling? Regards.

Michael, I suggest you read a bit about the watches and the factory first.
Poljot and Kirova are/were one and the same company, in fact going back further, they derived from the 1st Moscow Watch Factory...

Poljot
History
1930's FSWF wristwatch with Dueber-Hampden designed movement
Poljot Aviator caliber 3133 chronograph

Founded in 1930 under orders from Stalin, the First State Watch Factory (Russian: Первый Государственный Часовой Завод - 1ГЧЗ) was the first Serious Soviet watch and mechanical movement manufacturer. Via its USA-based trading company Amtorg, the Soviet government bought the defunct Ansonia Clock Company of Brooklyn, New York in 1929, and the Dueber-Hampden Watch Company of Canton, Ohio. It moved twenty-eight freight cars full of machinery and parts from the USA to Moscow in order to establish the factory. Twenty-one former Dueber-Hampden watchmakers, engravers and various other technicians helped to train the Russian workers in the art of watchmaking as part of the Soviet's First Five-Year Plan. Interestingly, the movements of very-early products were still stamped "Dueber-Hampden, Canton, Ohio, USA" (examples of these watches are very collectible today). In 1935 the factory was named after the murdered Soviet official Sergei Kirov.

As the Germans closed in on Moscow in 1941, the factory was hurriedly evacuated to Zlatoust (Russian: Златоу́ст). By 1943 the Germans were in retreat, and the factory moved back to Moscow, adopting the "First Moscow Watch Factory" name (Russian: Первый Московский Часовой Завод - 1МЧЗ).

In 1947 the first wrist watches under the brand name "Pobeda" and the first Marine Chronometers and Deck watches are produced. By 1951 the production of wrist watches increases to 1.1 million. In 1975 new machinery and equipment for manufacturing complex watches are imported from Switzerland. The first chronograph "Okean" (caliber 3133) is produced for the space station "Sojuz-23."

In 1990 production of watches and clocks reaches 5 million pieces and in 1991 the international award "Golden Trophy for Quality" is awarded in Madrid. In 1992-1994 the new brand "Poljot-V GmbH" or "Poljot-International" is set up with headquarters in Kahl, Germany in order to market and distribute "Poljot" watches to the West. "Poljot International" is a separate company from the original Moscow brand with its watches completely produced in Germany.

Poljot Deck Watch
You ask if they are any good, well was Ulysse Nardin any good ? because they are a direct copy of them!

RUSSIAN NAVY CCCP PRECISION DECK WATCH

POLJOT

from 1 Moscow Watch Factory

produced in 1981

Manufacturer: The First Moscow Watch Factory ( 1 MWF )

Serial number #53303, produced in 1981

The First Moscow Watch Factory ( 1 MWF ) is the owner of the Poljot trade mark. The brand came to life at 1961 with the historic event of first human in space.

About the technology of this clock: the construction is based on a famous model Nardin.

...and Michael, the red colour on the back of those watches, is a coloured protectant which is still on there since new!

Thank you Werner, lots of good information to stew over. Lets see if I can find one in my price range. I would love to see more examples from other members as well.

Hi Michael.

I do not know of any, but you will definitely want to find a trustworthy seller. If you do some searching on this website for these Russian chronometers you will find some horror stories of people who were scammed out of their money by either not receiving anything or receiving damaged timepieces.

I am not sure of todays prices, but prices from not very many months ago that people here were mentioning seemed to be in the $350 to $700 range for these.

Also, the sense I have gotten from people's dicussions on these is that parts are not easily available.

Thank you Jim for the added information. The last thing I need is to ripped off by an unknown seller or have a timepiece no one can service or repair. All things one must keep in his cap.

If you word search on this forum for the name Sabina in the text part of the posts, you will find perhaps the worst example. From what I saw she was a sophisticated crook who started out selling these on Ebay from Russia and established a reputation for good quality clocks reliably sent, but with the pattern of the deliveries taking several months with the explanation that customs and mail takes that long from Russia. Then she struck hard and scammed at least 8 buyers in a row and possibly more by not sending them anything and their not suspecting a problem because the pattern was that it took a long time for the mail to get to you. This allowed her to continue to operate during that time before anyone caught onto her and eventually Ebay shut down her account - though one can easily sign up for a new account so she is likely back out there under a new name.

Also, I am not sure but I am suspicious whether she was even the actual seller or just a made up persona. My thinking is she sent photos of herself holding the clocks and she was as beautiful as a model. She may have been the real seller, but it could be that the woman in the photos may have simply been part of the real scammer's bait to engender quick trust by featuring an innocent and beautiful looking woman selling to male buyers (most timepiece collectors are older men) and it is possible that her boyfriend or husband or some other guy could have been the real one behind the scenes running the scam.

The other part of the problem with buying from Russia or many other similar countries is there is little you can do from another country after you have been taken. I am sure there are some very honorable and trustworth sellers from Russia and you can get some really nice clocks, but you need to have your eyes wide open as there are some crooks in the mix. It is very much caveat emptor situation.

Hello Michael,

quote:

I would love to see more examples from other members as well.

Your wish is my command!

This is my soviet russian deck watch produced by the 1st Moscow Watch Factory Kirova.

You don't necessarily need a serialnumbers data base, usually the date of production is stamped onto the movement - here you can see the 1-65 above the serial number, which means that the movement was produced in the first quarter of the year 1965.







I hope you like it!

Best regards
Gerd

Thank you Jim and Gerd for showing me your example. I have seen a example as of late that is dated March of 1958 (3-58). It has radium or radium like filled hands and numerals. Does this sound original to you? Every other example I have seen has the blued steel color hands and no luminesant dial. Regards, Mike

Dear Michael,

I haven't seen such deck watches with any kind of luminescent paint. I own several ones, all of them have blue hands and no luminescent dial or numbers.
But all of them were produced later than the one you have seen.

BTW, the 3-58 doesn't mean that the watch was produced in March of the year, but in the third quarter.

Best regards
Gerd

OK. Thank you for the information regarding the dating of these pieces. The way it sounds Gerd is that you have enough examples to share with the rest of the class! Feeling generous? You are very lucky. Thank you for the great pics.

Thank you for the positive comment regarding the pictures. Well...what shall I say? I'm not sure if I could spare one of these lovely chronos!

Best regards,
Gerd

Gerd, I don't think I could spare any of my examples as well (not that I have one yet). Just kidding and all in good fun! Thanks again and with higher best regards, Mike

Michael, These were selling for $3-400 a few years ago, but the sale prices have about doubled recently. I bought this 1975 production unit about 6 years ago and it is easily the equal or better of my fully serviced Hamiltion 22's.

Another stunning and beutiful example. Thank you David. I am on the full hunt now for the right one for me and my buget. Regards, Mike

Hello all,

And thank you Werner, Jim, Gerd and David for all the information and examples. I did get one a few days ago and am anxiously waiting its arival. It is a Kirova like yours Gerd. And regarding prices, they are not cheap. I am unable to travel to trade shows or expos and need to purchase with an on-line basis only. The best deal for the price was this one after some back and forth. $750 was the agreed upon price with all that you see, watch with case. The watch seems in fine condition and just serviced keeping time. Nothing is a bargain these days. Hopefuly the investment pays off someday.

Now Werner I am sure you already explained this but The Polet and Kirova brand names....they both come from the same watch factory (First Moscow Watch Factory)?

Also I have seen examples with a black tag and ones with a mustard color tag. What is the difference between the two watches enclosed? Maybe going to two different branches of service. What do the tags translate to? Also the paper to the side of the deck box...is this a paper to authenticate a service or is this paper a military form?

I also have noticed that some of these examples have "Set pins" and some don't. But the boxes still have the little area to secure one. Were there some examples that had this feature discontinued at some point? And if yes, when? Am I right in comming to the conclusion that the pin I speak of is a "set pin"? Also, should the date on the box lable coorespond with the watch's movement date? Or when the servicing happend the division taking care of the service was not to concerned with keeping original box with watch?

I have attatched some picture for you to elaborate on anything you may see. Thank you all and I hope all is well. Mike

LATER NOTE ADDED: I think there is someone "upstairs" with the work title "Chief Bubble Popper" as there is always someone who tends to do so after I feel really great about something like this watch. I have a trusted watchmaker I have been using now for a fews years and I would go as far as calling him a " good friend" from our dealings and conversations alone. I don't have many "good friends" so taking this mans word put a little sting in my heart from his responce to me after I let him know of my recent purchase (Kirova Deck Watch.) I wanted to know and ask if he has available parts to repair such watches and service. This was his responce:

"Hi Michael,

We do work on all Russian watches, we don't have parts for this model, we can maybe make a staff, make a mainspring and maybe repair minor levers or so. But other than that stay away from all Russian watches even the ones that look nice like this one. They used only blueprints from Swiss companies and replicated Swiss watches, however they used terrible materials which should not be used in making watch parts. There are even Russian chronographs which they copied from Valjoux and they look the same, but they are finished roughly, look horrible and of terrible metals. Trust me, in the long run, you will lose money on any Russian made watch. Use it with care, they are fragile. Wind and set time smoothly when doing so.
On that watch accuracy is good but the rest stands as far as I can tell you. And trust me as far as Russian watches my dad knows all there is to know. My great grandfather, grandfather and father worked on all Russian watches (being neighbors with them there in Romania). We came here to the states in 1987 and opened shop here in 1989. Probably 80% of all the watches they repaired then were Russian watches."



This must be Chief Bubble Popper's busy season. I wonder if SHE works by commission.

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Michael, don´t worry about parts, the amount of wear that you are going to cause that watch can be next to none. It´s too late now anyway, you´ve already bought it. The worst that could happen is you may have to send it back to Russia if any repairs with new parts had to be done.
I had to send my Poljot marine Chronometer back, because the balance was damaged in transit. No problem, it took a few weeks, but it came back working.

Regards

Werner