Internet Horology Club 185
Model 22 in Orig Box

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/990103944/m/3431081112

February 17, 2006, 23:55
John J. Flahive III
Model 22 in Orig Box
I am curious as to how much having the original cardboard box adds to the value of a Hamilton Model 22, 35s chronometer?

This one is mint - hasn't seen much daylight. My Grandfather bought it at a military surplus store for $30 some time ago. Eek

Pic of outer box:


February 17, 2006, 23:56
John J. Flahive III
Front of Chronometer:


February 17, 2006, 23:57
John J. Flahive III
Inner wooden box


February 17, 2006, 23:58
John J. Flahive III
Movement


February 17, 2006, 23:59
John J. Flahive III
Details of Engraving


February 17, 2006, 23:59
John J. Flahive III
Case inside


February 18, 2006, 00:00
John J. Flahive III
Case Back


February 18, 2006, 00:01
John J. Flahive III
Closeup of Serial Number, 2F23802.


February 18, 2006, 00:42
John J. Flahive III
To quote an article I found in the November 1979 Horological Times:

"When the clouds of World War II were forming on the horizon and we were rapidly expanding the size of our Navy, the need for navigating watches was just as great as the need for ships' chronometers. Again, Hamilton rose to the occasion and, as in the case of their masterpiece, the Ship's Chronometer, designed and mass-produced a navigating watch (model 22) whose performance was unsurpassed.

This 35 size, high-quality, 21-jeweled movement is an instrument of great beauty, precision, and endurance. Anyone owning on of these fine timepieces has every reason to be proud of this possession."

I certainly am.
February 18, 2006, 01:25
John J. Flahive III
I also found an interesting history lesson on the development of the Model 22 from William O. Bennett who was on the development team.

Reference the Bulletin, June 2005 issue, "The Hamilton Marine Chronometer"
February 20, 2006, 00:12
Matthew E. Sutton
John, That is the first card board box that I have ever seen. If it matches the chronometer, it would bring a premium, I'm sure. Your watch is unusual in that the Model 22 was discontinued early on by the Navy in favor of the gimbaled version of the 22. A total of 9,815 were purchased by the Navy, and soon recalled for disposal with a few being transfered to the Army. Yours is an Army-Airforce version where only 420 were made. So, with the original box you are in uncharted territory in regards to value.
February 21, 2006, 13:30
Greg Crockett
Hello John,

Excellent images and research.

Value:
It seems I’m often behind the times regarding value. However, I may be able to offer a few general observations:

Research = $. When a timepiece is as well researched as yours is, it not only satisfies the curiosity of the owner, but also enhances monetary value. When offered on the auction block, I have noticed that well researched items tend to increase the excitement of bidders.

Packaging = $
The outer packaging is a major plus. I have not seen one of these for sale, so no idea of how much extra. However, if you check the price guides for similar high grade watches, the original boxes and cartons always add considerably to the estimated value listed.

A great post. you and Matt have increased my knowledge of these fine timepieces.

Best regards,

Greg
February 21, 2006, 13:40
Lindell V. Riddle

What a great item and a great topic to learn about it!

On value: A simple 'rule-of-thumb' is that for such an item with original box and packaging doubles value. As Greg pointed out such an item as this one is nearly impossible to fairly estimate.

Thanks everyone, another 'something new' we all learn every day.

You guys are a storehouse of knowledge.

Wink

February 21, 2006, 17:53
Jim Hester
Super watch! I've never seen a nicer one which would should be a plus - such a perfect condition is not normally found.

On the minus side is that it does not appear to have been actually used in the war and may be post-war with those serial and purchase order numbers of AF-45 which suggest it was either at the very end of the war or a year or two afterwards. Many (but certainly not all) military timepiece collectors like to imagine the watch or clock having been used for the purpose for which it was built - a bomber pilot checking the panel clock as he was making his bombing run, the artillery officer clicking his stopwatch timing the barrage, the crew of submarine staring at the bulkhead clock as they wondered how much longer they had to stay submerged and silent to avoid the destroyers passing overhead, etc.

Still, I would think the plusses outweigh this minus and that it would go for more than most watches of this kind - especially to the cross-over collectors who are real Hamilton connoisseurs.
February 21, 2006, 20:25
John J. Flahive III
Thanks gentlemen for all of this information on this and the other military watches. Like Lindell, I am learning something everyday.

I agree that this one doesn't have the mystique of helping the Allies win the Big One, but the box and the condition make it special nonetheless.

I almost sold this watch for $1200 a few months ago, but the buyer wanted a gimbled version. Whew! Roll Eyes I think I'll keep it a while longer.
February 21, 2006, 21:33
Lindell V. Riddle

Jim's comment about 'battle-scared' items is interesting!

I have a few like that and likewise imagine all they have been through. But I also love the pristine, unused example that shows what they were like when new. Here is one I added to my collection...

"U.S. Army Air Corps" Marked Hamilton 4992B

John's is a time-capsule, for that reason it should be carefully preserved.

Wink

February 25, 2006, 09:04
Matthew E. Sutton
Picture the watch being used in post war flight operations such as the massive humanitarian effort of the Berlin airlift as the Marshall plan was evolving...the U.S. Army-Airforce (A.A.F.)was was ready to split into two seprate services in 1947...jets were arriving on the scene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Force