Having just purchased this watch on ebay, I have several questions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&it...TRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

My assumption is that it has been recased, but I decided to bid on it because the movement & overall condition appears to be very good & I really like the case. My questions for the experts out there:

-Is my assumption of it being a recase correct?
-Were these pieces always housed in military-marked cases, similar to the 4992Bs?
-If recased, are the correct cases difficult to find?
-Conversely, does this case fit a regular BWR movement?
-Is this 24Hr dial a correct military dial, original to this movement?
-Does the movement appear to be OK otherwise?

Any other comments welcomed. Thanks for the information.

Ted

Hi Ted,

That's kind of a strange combination of parts. An extra off-set second hand along with center seconds. My guess is that a military movement was matched up with the wrong dial and case.

It may be possible to find out if the watch originally came with a 24 hour or 12 hour dial, and then make a guess as to the original issue. Such as, a 24 hour dial could have been a Navigation Master Watch of the U.S. Army Air Force, while a 12 hour dial could have been used by England or Canada as a deck watch (to make a few guesses.

Anyway, it's an interesting combination of parts to keep as is, or to take appart and use to restore three other watches, one in need of a dial, one in need of a 16 size commercial case and one in need of a center seconds movement.

Best regards,
Greg

Yes, I found it particularly strange that it had both off-set and center seconds.

If I can find an appropriate case, I think I would be inclined to recase it & use this case on an appropriate non-mimitary movement.

But it is quite unique.

Does anyone know how to date this case? Would that be limited to BWRs?

Ted

Hi Ted,

I agree with Greg that the watch is a strange combination of parts.

I have a BWR Grade 581 (same grade as your watch), that has a painted metal 12-hr montgomery dial. It has the sweep second hand, but not the off-set seconds bit. The hands are a baton style. The case is base metal with no military markings on the back.

On the BWR grade 581, the 24 hour dials are generally marked GCT,are generally black (though there are some white GCT dials), and are numbered 0-23 or 1-24. In this case the movement is geared to be a 24-hr movement.

The case on your watch is not limited to BWRs. I have seen similar cases on other Elgin grades and Walthams.

-Steve

I'm not sure I'm seeing anything military about the watch, or any of its pieces if it is indeed a frankenwatch. 24 hour dials are typical for civilian watches sold and used in other markets such as Europe and many other places where 24 hour time is commonly used. Does the movement have a military marking (US or other) on it?

ELGIN DATA BASE

The serial number 41755588 can be checked in the above Elgin Database. Per the Elgin Database, it is noted that most of these were set up as Military GCT watches. There is no perticular information regarding the production run for your particular movement, which might tell us if your movement was made for the U.S. Army, England, etc.

Best regards,
Greg

"Googling" this 581 BWR movement turns up several examples of military watches in unmarked, base metal cases, with a variety of dial styles.

Ted

This watch just arrived. It is very nice and keeping perfect time. Movement & dial are both near mint & the case is very nice, too.

It's kind of "cool" as is, even though just a conglomeration. I will probably be on the lookout for a military case like Steve described, along with an appropriate dial. I suspect that a nice, appropriate Elgin commercial movement wouldn't be that hard to find.

Thanks to each of you for this helpful information.

Ted