Hi there, first post here from me, i thought i would post some pics of the two military watches i own, to see if any of the readers of this forum could help me out with them.

Number one is a Military pocket watchmade by JLC, it works fine but the winding stem has gotten broken off...is it a difficult repair to do ?







Anyone know what the markings on the back mean ?


The watch was bought in England at a Military fair in Kent a couple of years ago....and i know very little about it...such as is it pre or post WW2 ?

Next up is somthing i bought here in Atlantic Canada a few weeks ago for a few $'s in a junk shop.







The clock says 8 day MKII S Smith and sons (MA) London ref number 6A/579 L 2/38 and Swiss made.

It runs well but gains about 7 to 10 mins a day..

Any comments on my timepieces are very welcome...

Sorry the links to the pics failed.......back to the drawing board....

Hi and welcome. Thanks for posting the photos of your nice timepieces. The markings on the back of your watch mean:

The arrowhead is the standard British government marking put on everything owned by the military for many hundreds of years - it is called the broadarrow. The 6E/50 is the code for a watch issued by the British Air Ministry sometime during 1939 to 1945.

Your clock is a basic cockpit clock that would have been mounted in the instrument panel of a British RAF aircraft. Yours was purchased by the Air Ministry in 1938 and it would have been in service for many years afterwards. Some people like to call these Spitfire clocks because that makes them sound romantic but there is no way to tell whether a particular clock was mounted in a fighter like a Spitfire or a bomber or a transport or an observation aircraft or a trainer or a transport. They were pretty much one size fits all. And, as they needed servicing they were taken out of one aircraft, a replacement was installed while the removed clock was serviced, and then the repaired clock usually put into another aircraft. Unless you know the person who took it out of its last aircraft there is no way to tell what they were in and it would be incorrect to call it a Spitfire clock.

Thank you for your reply, so the JLC watch was used by the RAF, i dident realise that, thanks for that info...iv'e just wound it using the wheel in the movement and it is keeping great time.....i need to get that winding stem fixed....

Thanks for the info about the MK2 clock, it was bought screwed to a wooden plinth, and the clock is in allmost mint condition wit few if any signs of wear.....the rear of the clock has just the serial number, but not the AM air ministry markings....as i bought this clock here in Canada maybe it was never issued and sold off as surplus after the war....maybe that would account for its allmost unused condition ?

Thanks again for your help.

You are very welcome.

A bit more information on your JLC watch is that the 6E/50 marking indicates that it is a pocket watch that would have been issued to observers rather than pilots or other kinds of air crew. I am not a person who is any good at repairing clocks and watches so I can not tell you what might be needed to repair your watch, however there are some pretty good experts around these forums who should be able to tell you just what to do to repair your pocketwatch.

As you say, your Mark II clock is in remarkable condition and I believe you are likely correct that it is "unissued, unused, new old stock" that was sold as surplus at some point. If it was sold as surplus, it would most likely not have been until long after the war and possibly not all that long ago. These kinds of clocks were kept in service for a great many years. Then again, there are unused old stock parts around and it could simply be a refurbished example. I am somewhat surprised at there being no 'AM' and 'a crown emblem' Air Ministry markings. Perhaps the case was replaced at some point in its life? Also, since you found it the Maritimes my first thought is that it may more likely be an RCAF clock rather than an RAF clock. There is really no substantive difference since the RAF supplied most of the aircraft and parts to the RCAF (the US supplied some as well - I have an RCAF Waltham clock for example). For RCAF clocks I have seen tend to have rather crude ink or paint stampings, or even scratched in markings of RCAF on clocks. Or perhaps, and this is just guessing, the Air Ministry supplied clocks to the RCAF without the AM marking since they were then the property of the RCAF?

With old timepieces it is always hard to tell where something is 100% original or some lesser percentage since they are made to be taken apart and damaged parts replaced with new ones.

Aloha Jim

Do you have information on the A.M. 6B/60 marking and M.T.C.A primarily
on 3992B case backs

Mahalo Scott

The MKII clock, to me looks like it's not been touched, the wooden stand that it was attached to looks like late 40's , and the inside of the clock ( i have had the movement out to have a look at it) looks like it's not seen the light of day for many a year.....it is dirty and needs a service, but apart from that the movement looks mint,the case is only showing some brassing round the bezell where it has been wound up over the years in its role as someones mantle clock somwhere in the maritimes.....

The movement in the MKII BTW is only marked "SWISS M" nothing else, i wonder who was the movement s maker ?

Interesting pictures. Thanks for posting them.

Scott, the codes on your watch are most likely for a navigator's watch, although I don't see this perticular 6B/ number in my list. but the RAF did have several sets of codes for "substitute standard" items, such as watches from the USA. I'm also at a loss for what the M.T.C.A. stands for. Could you provide a picture?

Thanks,
Greg

Hello All,

compliments for the nice timepieces and a little note for repair...remove the dial of the JLC and check the winding assy if all parts are there and possibly take a pic and post it, to replace the stem will be not difficult at all...

Re the clock since it is advancing that much the first thing to check it is a sticky hairspring...so the first cure is to degauss the complete clock or just the balance. While acting on the balance then inspect the hairspring for correctness. If that still doesnt help then wash the complete mvmt. It will need additional investigations if all above will not solve the problem...
rgds

enzo

I believe the 6B/60 code is the standard Air Ministry code for a 3992 navigational chronometer, made by either Hamilton or Elgin.

I am not positive about the supplementary M.T.C.A. marking you mention, but I would expect it to stand for Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation. I should imagine your chronometer was transferred from the Air Ministry to them for their use somewhere along the way. The M.T.C.A. was the name for this part of the UK government from 1953 to 1959 which would date the time period during which this supplemental marking would have been applied.

Aloha nui loa, Koka!
Kimo

Thank you everyone for your help, what agreat forum this is.....you all sure know your stuff.....

I will try and teke some shots of the movement of the MKII clock and post them on here next week if anyones interested....

And i will look into removing the dial of the JLC to have a look at the winding mechanism as soon as i get some decent watchmakers screwdrivers !!!

The clock will probably be going into my local friendly watchmaker for a clean and service as soon as funds permit.

Once again, Thanks everyone for your help.....i have lerned a lot....