Hi All,

Inquiring with regard to markings on a Alfred Sandoz Rattrapante Chronograph, is some able to clarify if these are naval military, merchant navy or someones personal engravings?

Best Regards to All,
Bila

I am stumped. It is not any military marking that I have ever seen before but I am sure I have not seen every one possible. Hopefully someone here will recognize it.

In the meantime, could you please post a photo of the front, and of the movement as they might help with the identification.

Hi Jim,

Thanks very much for you reply & information with regard to my inquiry. Below I have included more photos, these include movement, dial and also the curvette. You can also on the inside of the case lid the number 463, this is the same number as the one that is engraved on the back of the case.

The Dial

The Curvette

Whatever it is, the style of the dial and the movement is somewhere around 1895 to 1910.

The 'No. 463' on the back and inside the case would be saying that whatever organization marked it would likely have had at least 462 or 362 more timepieces of some kind that they were tracking. The 362 possibility is because these kinds of serial numbering systems typically start at either 001 or 101 depending on the whim of whoever is in charge.

I just did a quick search and found the following discussion and photos of what appears to be an identical pocket watch but without the engravings on the back. Another example - one without the back engraving This suggests one of two possibilities - that these were made and sold to the general public in addition to the organization that marked the back of your watch, or that the markings on the back of your watch were added at some later time. It is hard to tell from an internet photo, but from what I can see the markings on your watch seem to be consistent with its age and my thought is they are likely of the era.

I am still stumped by the 'M.-B.' marking as it could mean almost anything from military to a shipping company or some other large organization that had something to do with ships. For example, a wild guess of one possible military meaning could be 'Marine Belgique' but I am not sure that makes complete sense to me since during the era this watch would have been made and used the Beligian navy was officially named the 'Marine Royale'. Or to take another example from the same country it could also stand for 'Maritime Belge' which is a cargo shipping company that started in 1895. I am not trying to tie this to Belgium with these two examples, as the two letters could stand for countless things, but I just wanted to illustrate a similar military and a civilian example and it could just as likely be either.

I am still hoping someone will stop by here who recognizes the marking and clear up what it is.

Bila,

The closest I can find to your markings is seen in Wesolowski's book and references French Military Torpedo watches during the WWI era. The anchor is slightly different but does resemble it. In regards to the "M-B"....I do not know. Is your watch a French made watch? I am not familiar with this maker. The complicated movement on your piece would serve quite nicely for that purpose. Regards, Mike

I believe that Alfred Sandoz is a Swiss company. The Swiss have always had a few government boats on Lakes Konstanz and Leman but no real navy so I don't think that would be very likelys.

Unfortunately the French navy markings are very different from this one so again I this this being French military is also unlikely.

I concur with you Jim that possibly not French Navy as the marks are definately too different to be correct, but thanks very much for your input Michael, as this probably allows us to cross-off the French. Yes Jim the Sandoz company was Swiss, licensing was sold to a possible 4 different companies all trading with 'Sandoz' in the name, although one is still Swiss based. The reference by you Jim with regard to the cargo shipping company 'Maritime Belge' and similar time line in relation to the age of the watch is interesting. I have contact regularly with overseas Merchant seaman in the job I do here in Australia, and I have seen crews from certain shipping companies having personalised items with the Companies Logo. Hopefully someone might stumble across this post and recognise the marks.

Once again I thank everybody for all their efforts,
Best Regards,
Bila