Internet Horology Club 185
A Mystery Pocket Watch...or A Counterfeit?

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/990103944/m/1931073161

August 24, 2005, 11:34
Raymond Williamson
A Mystery Pocket Watch...or A Counterfeit?
I'm new at this and am stumbling along by trial and error,so please be patient. I don't have any image, but hope the description of this most interesting watch will serve:
ELGIN,7 J, #29592133 (1926), 16 S.PS,PW, OF, Grade 157. Marks on face - ELGIN, bold RR style numerals 1 - 12, w/13-24 ala Canadian style inside
chapter ring. Marks on mvt - ELGIN NAT'L WATCH CO
USA SEVEN JEWELS, 29592133
Marks on case - inside - Keystone (logo)Base metal
outside- AVIATION SECTION /SIGNAL CORPS /U.S.ARMY/
ELGIN.
wHAT DO WE HAVE HERE? Raymond Williamson,Tennessee
August 24, 2005, 12:31
Kevin Pestor
Welcome Ray to ch 185, a big family here is waiting to help you in your love of this hobby.
I can,t say for sure what you have, but i do know Elgin made time pieces for the millitary.
I am sure someone else will help you.If you could get some pictures it would help alot. Smile
August 24, 2005, 12:57
Jim Hester
Can you post some clear photos with closeups? I've never heard of Elgin making anything for the Aviation Section - Signal Corps and the 1926 date is wrong for that marking as well since the ASSC was in existance only between July, 1914 and May, 1918. Between May, 1918 and July, 1926 it was the Army Air Service. After July 1926 it became the Army Air Corps.

Just on the surface of your description is sounds like you have either a frankenwatch or something with ASSC markings added to the case to deceive you. Some photos would help to clarify things, though.
August 25, 2005, 14:22
Greg Crockett
Some years ago,there was an American pocket watch marked in this manner posted on another web address. Unfortunately, I did not record any information about the watch.

So, there is the possibility that you have a genuine A.S.S.C. watch case, but with a replaced movement inside of it.

As noted above, some images of the watch would be of use. I would look for evidence of a different movement in the case at some point, such as extra screw marks inside on the back rim.

Best regards,
Greg
August 25, 2005, 19:08
Raymond Williamson
Kevin,Jim,Greg: Thanks for the warm welcome! Greg, you have a good memory. That was me who sent the description in to the SMWC, maybe 3 - 4 years ago. Didn't have much luck with them, though one of their number wahted to buy it.
There is no evidence of a strange movement ever having been fitted to this case. I regret not having the capability of making and sending images
August 26, 2005, 17:09
Greg Crockett
So that was your watch on MWR, Raymond. Hummmm. But, I think I recall seeing an image of the watch.

One other suggestion: check the back, body and bezel of the case and see if they have the same number. Maybe the back was switched, though more likely the entire case was used with a different movement.

The trouble with switching is that we have no idea what the original movement or dial were like. Your watch may have originally been made with an Elgin movement with screws at the same positions as the one in it now. Either that, or someone made a fake military watch with bogus engravings. This must be true for the movement is too new for those engravings.

While I'm not all that familure with pocket watch case numbers, some collectors were working on a case number chart at some point. It would be nice if the watch case could be varified as being 1914-1918 vintage. Try posting a request in the pocket watch forum and let's see if someone has any data to date the case. Be sure to include the case serial number from inside the back.

Best regards,
Greg