Hi all,

it's been at least two years (I think) since my last posting here; finally got re-registered since your last move !

I'm writing today to see if anyone knows how to date Seth Thomas clocks (via movement serial # or any other method)? I recently purchased the following Seth Thomas "Sector Clock" (used in the same manner as the RAF sector clocks) which was used by the USAAF during WWII. I have a good deal of information on how and when they were being used, but seems there is very little information in regard to Seth Thomas to be found.









In addition - anyone know the connection between GE and Seth Thomas ? Seems the bakelite case was made by GE. This clock is basically the same clock as a Seth Thomas "bulkhead" US Navy clock with a different dial.

Thanks for any insight, information, or advice - much appreaciated.

Best Regards,

Billy

It is an interesting clock, but I am not able to provide any factual information about it.

I had not heard of the Army Air Force using sector clocks in WW II - I had only heard about the RAF ones. Which research sources have you seen that describe the USAAF as having had these?

I also note two features about this particular clock that make me wonder whether this clock is 100% original USAAF: 1) there are no military markings of any kind on it, and 2)the General Electric logo on the back.

The USAAF heavily marked all of their timepieces that I have ever seen to ensure such valuable, desireable, and easily portable equipment did not 'go missing.' This one not having any military markings of any kind is hard for me to imagine why.

General Electric was a supplier to the Army Air Force during WW II but everything I have seen of theirs is somehow related to electrical things (redios, searchlights, magnetos, etc.). As this clock does not seem to be a electric master or slave electrical clock it makes me wonder why the GE logo is on the back.

While this may be perfectly correct in what it appears to be, a couple of other possibilities that might be worth investigating are that the dial may be a later replacement of what might have been a regular military dial, or that the clock was not originally purchased by the military but rather by General Electric to use in one of their factories or in one of their installations such as a power plant somewhere. I have been in hydro-electric plants and coal fired power plants and such around the country where the generators and control panels are made by GE and among the hundreds of gauges and instruments mounted in the control panels are clocks. GE may have purchased these clocks from Seth Thomas for such use and had the cases made with their marking so they would not 'walk off' in someone's pocket. I do not know why such a clock would need a sector clock dial for such a use, but again this could be a later 'improvement' by someone.

Hi Jim,

the connection with GE is one I'm certain existed - the same mark is found on period Navy Clocks (I'll grab a photo of a friend's Navy clock, which he states has the exact same marking on the bakelite case). Here's his clock with the same GE marking:



As for the issue of the clock being used by the USAAF, again I have no doubt. In fact there are several photos of these clocks in use in the book "Signals - The Story of Communications in the XIX Tactical Air Command". I also have a rather good article by Bob Gardner (@ www.aeroclocks.com) who is a well known collector / seller of RAF clocks. His article includes some wonderful images of these clocks in their original "carry case" - again which are shown in the book I mention above.

Here is a photo of one such Seth Thomas Sector clock in use by the USAAF IXth:



I have no doubt to the clocks authenticity and am simply searching out further info about its history.

I've also placed a research question with the NAWCC, who happen to have a duplicate of this clock hanging in its museum gallery. They seem to be rather slow to respond, but do have a contact number which I'll likely use in the next day or two.

Thanks again for your kind reply and for any additional information anyone may be able to provide.

Kind Regards,

Billy

I neglected to mention a photo of the USAAF Clock may also be found in Konrad Knirim's new book "British Military Timepieces" on page 180.

Kind Regards,

Billy

Gentleman

Chelsea clock also made this Sector clock. The dial is much more vivid in color than the Seth Thomas. Maybe they would help with the history. Bill

Thanks, Billy. I love this website - I am constantly learning new things. Jim

Billy nice seth thomas clock.All so I like that book you did on military timepieces called zero hour good job on that book.What is the serial no at the next meeting about 2 months I go to the guy that works on all my chelsea's and seth thomas he has the most knowlage I know of I can ask him and see what he come's up with he just mite get the date it was made for you if you want to wait that long.

I found out some info on this clock today my mom is in the hospital so I go to visit the woman in the other bed next to my mom and her husband started talking they said they own a clock repair shop that has been around since 1930 he worked on a lot of military clocks it got my mind off of my mom so I ask about this seth thomas and the dial and GE well he had one and came up with the same as Billy Sector clock used by the US and that GE did make clock cases for the military during the war remember there was a war on and a lot of companies started making stuff they never made before do to the war effort.Check out this case for a navigation watch would a electric company make these before the war.

Below is a link to a thread I started a while ago about my clock trying to determine how exactly and where this clock was used. Without going back to read the whole thread, I recall that it was never determined exactly how the different colors were used. At least now I suppose we know the USAAF used them.
Link to old thread-Chelsea clock
Mike