Picture related to the post above

Same again

Did this one come from a seller in Bulgaria? There is some discussion a few pages back in this thread about a similar one that the owner obtained from a seller in Bulgaria.

I always get a little leary when I see watches coming from Russia and Eastern European countries. I am sure many of them are fine, but I have seen too many that are made up from parts or with embellishments from some sellers in these countries to be fully trusting, especially when the photos are a bit fuzzy.

Assuming you have it checked out by a trusted local watchmaker who knows these well and they say it is all correct, this would be a British aircraft cockpit watch from the Great War. They were made in large numbers by a variety of makers with each maker being assigned a two letter prefix beginning with B and the second letter being the identifier for the company that had a contract to make and supply them. BL is the identifier for one of the unknown makers/suppliers as they did not mark their movements. The A over the broad arrow marking on the back would indication Air Ministry. The bow in the winding stem should not be there. It would be something that was unfortunately added at some later date. When these were being used in aircraft there was no reason to have a bow, and in fact the bow would have gotten in the way as these were mounted in one of several kinds of holders on the instrument panel and were intended to be removed for safe keeping after each flight. If you will read through this entire thread you will find all you might like to know about these types of watches.

As these are quite common these days they have only a modest value. You see sellers try get all kinds of crazy prices sometimes, but you should be able to pick them up for around 100 to maybe 200 pounds depending on the maker, the originality, and the condition.

Dear Forum,

My 82 year old Mother handed me this watch on her 60th wedding anniversary last year. It belonged to her father who flew in WW1 for the RNAS mainly in the Agean area. It appears highly modified with new case, bow etc. I was fascinated to see the excellent example posted on your forum of a similar original Moise Dreyfuss Mark IV A.

My grandfather was posted in the Agean from January 1917 - Nov. 17th 1918, including flying to Constantinople with his squadron for the Armistice. Almost all of his log entries are daytime, hence the white watch face.

Any observations on this watch would be very welcome!

Geoff Morrison

I can't read what's on the dial of your watch. If the word Admiralty is on the dial, then it would be a RNAS issued item. A bigger picture of the dial and an image of the movement might provide additional information.

Keep in mind that the ROYAL NAVY AIR SERVICE and the ROYAL AIR CORPS were combined in 1918 to form the ROYAL AIR FORCE.

Dear Greg,

Thank you for your response. I will upload more photos shortly. The face of the watch reads
No 1122 A.G.
Moise Dreyfuss
Mark IV A.

Swiss Made

The inside back reads
Octava Watch Co. Switzerland
15 Fifteen Jewels
3 Adjustments
U.S.A.P. 816321

More Photos;

Thank you for sharing the watch and some of your family history. It looks like you have an 8 day movement, which are less common than the 30 hour type.

I suspect your Grandfather was proud of his service in the Grate War and thought enough of the watch to have it re-cased at some point after the war.

If you run a search of this forum with the word Admiralty, you will find some other examples of timepieces your Grandfather might have seen/used back in 1914/1918.

Aircraft Timepiece: Non Luminous MK IVa "Admiralty"

Having something like this that belonged to your ancestor is a very special and I hope you keep it and pass it along in your family with the information that you have on your grandfather as well as the information you find here.

What kind of aircraft did your grandfather fly? I would assume it may have been several different kinds as the aircraft of the day would become outdated in a matter of months and they were not built in a sturdy way that would have allowed for them to last for very long.

Do you know which RNAS and RAF squadrons to which he was assigned? The RNAS was merged into the RAF on April 1, 1918. Was he in the Aegean area the entire time and if so was he based at Imbros? Do you know whether he was a reconnaissance pilot, a bomber pilot, an artillery spotter pilot, a fighter pilot, a transport pilot or ??

Here is a photo of a postcard from about that time = the purple words in the upper left are not original to the card.

Hello Everybody:
My first post so please be Kind!!. Just wanted to say how I am enjoying the site and report the numbers on a ZENITH Mark V I recently acquired. This watch was in a collection for many years and I know of no history about this watch. The numbers are:
DIAL: 30 HOUR, NON LUMINOUS, MARK V., C.B. 6061

MOVEMENT: ZENITH, 2287355.

CASE MARKED:
INSIDE: ZENITH WATCH CO. SWISS.,4880699.
OUTSIDE BACK: Letter A over allied arrow.

Watch appears to be original except:
A) winding stem has been drilled and a bow added.
B) Chrystel changed- maybe. Has a nice crystal with a small bevel but has a moderate convex shape. I have read they should have a flat crystal. Comments would be helpful here!!

I have tried to attach pictures but for some reason I cannot send them. I will try to get pictures on when I sort it out.

Thank you. Will do my homework! John

Welcome to the forum and I, too, am looking forward to seeing your aircraft watch.

One clarification, you mention the back has an A over an 'allied arrow'. Actually, the arrow is called a 'broad arrow' and has been used since the 17th century by the British government as a marking to show their ownership of property such as military equipment. It was/is used by British commonwealth countries as well. It was not used by allied countries.

Thank you for the clarification Jim. I should have known better coming from a commonwealth country! My pics are too large to send as is and for some reason I cannot get them to compress but when I get them down I will put them on. John

If you upload them to one of the popular free photo hosting websites such as Photobucket and pull up the photo you can click on 'Edit' and then click on the button that says 'Resize'. Make the settings for 640 by 480 pixels, save it and then Bob's your uncle, your photo will be resized to a modest size.

Thank you Jim: I have used Picasa in the past but for some reason it is sulky at the moment. I will try Photobucket. John

Hopefully I have a few pics of Zenith 6061

Zenith 6061

Zenith 6061 crystal

Zenith 6061 movement

Zenith 6061 dial