I have a customer who claims to have an original Eli Terry Pillar and Scroll. Not running but at least has its weights. The lower glass is scraped off (not sure how much, let's assume total wipe out) but otherwise sounds compete (I have not seen it yet).
Any ideas as to a range of possible value? As soon as I get home I'll check my Swedburg book for a clue. I'll post more info as I get it, please keep checking back.
A good early Seth Thomas Pillar and Scroll shows a value in Tran's Seth Thomas book, of between $3,500.00 and $7,500.00 depending on condition and individual features.
The Terry Pillar and Scroll MAY be earlier. Eli Terry designed the Pillar and Scroll and Seth Thomas worked for Terry before starting up his own shop. One of the first Pillar and Scrolls that Seth Thomas produced had an off center pendulum. This was an attempt to avoid patent infringement law suits. Seth copied the movement he learned to make from Terry.
A lot of the value depends on condition and age. The Pillar and Scroll models were made for......well some are still being made today.
Tom
Posts: 2537 | Location: Mount Angel, Oregon in the U.S.A. | Registered: November 19, 2002
I have learned from the customer that the finials are missing. Unfortunately she lives some distance away and does not have a digital camera. So ultimately, I am going to have to visit the clock to determine its completeness and condition.
Bruce and Tom, there are several variables involved here that make a substantial price difference.
Is it an Eli Terry or Eli Terry & Sons? Does it have the early Lithograph label (early clock) or the later factory produced label (later clock)? Litho label (clock in good condition) $6000-$7000, Factory label $3500. The finials missing hurts about $500 (One can buy quality repros, but original finials are hard if impossible to find). The lower tablet missing is another factor, a quality Moberg reproduction with gold leaf border $350? Is there any breakage to the top or feet? You could spend another $500 to $1000 on restoration costs if your not comfortable or competent to do the work yourself.
If it’s an outside escapement and in good condition, it could be worth $12000-$15000 again depending on condition. A real nice Eli Terry & Sons, I think you’re in the $2500 to $3000 ballpark. All this being said, it depends on what someone is willing to pay, possess and go to the expense to restore.
All this is my personal opinion and is of little or no value. High end clocks have a limited market and I find that those buyers are pretty knowledgeable about the clocks they are willing to pay big dollars for.
Thanks for your input. Believe me I have precious little facts about Terry in general and this clock in specific. Here is what the customer indicates so far. Again I haven't seen the clock yet to determine all variables.
"The Clock measures approx. 29 high from table surface to top of the scroll, and 14 inches across the main body. If you include the two thin spindles (columns?) on each side then it's width is 16 inches. There are two heavy weights on the inside, 4 inches high each and a pendulum in the middle. It's a dark wood, the bottom is scalloped and has delicate legs considered the size of the piece. In back of the pendulum, on the inside of the clock, is the writing: PATENT CLOCKS. Invented by Eli Terry Made and Sold at Plymouth Connecticut E. Terry and Sons
There is a small yellowed piece of paper I found near one of the weights that says Eli Terry 1814. I'm thinking this may have been an early appraisal by someone since it appears this was written in ballpoint. The back of the clock has a tin 7" x 9" piece of old tin that is nailed on by very little rusty nails and I would not care to remove to check the workings. I hope this helps."
She also sent me an eBay listing for a Terry P&S but who knows just how close her's is to that one.
So it appears to be Terry & Sons alright. The info on the Moberg tablet is quite helpful. And of course you are right about the limited market. But surely someone out there in IHC land knows someone looking for one of these. As soon as I get a look at it I'll post pictures of type and condition for more accuracy. In the end you are exactly right about it will sell for what someone is willing to pay. I just want to give her an estimate of the value before we consummate a broker type deal.
It is currently at $827 running and complete. Swedburg shows the Terry & Sons P&S at $1250 in 2002. So a damaged clock might easily be in that $350-500 range.
The seller is now anxious to bring me the clock to broker a sale. It might be helpful to have those "quality repro" finials. Does anyone know who has them available?
If we go ahead with this brokering arrangement, I will probably bring the clock to the North-Coast meet in March.
I now have the clock in my possession and will post the pictures. Please take a look and let me know what a decent asking price should be.
In general, the clock is is good to very good condition depending on what aspect you are looking at. The overall appearance is quite good with the obvious issues of missing finials and a poor lower tablet. Finish is dark and dull but not so bad that the grain does not show. There are some other issues that affect its value that I'll detail as I add pictures.
Here are the feet and lower tablet. THe feet are all there with very little damage. The tablet is original with original putty, but in poor condition. The lower skirt appear to have had a veneer repair just to the left of center. Difficult to see here but it is a roughly triangular patch about 1-1/2" left of center.
The dial is is quite good condition with no significant warpage and no cracks. Here it is in place. The hour hand has been cracked on one side, difficult to see here but the crack is on the right hand leg just before the two inner legs come back together proceeding outward from the center. The minute hand is very good. Both hands could stand to be reblued for perfection.
Here is the dial. It has no significant warpage and no splits. There are some small areas in the time track and inner ring where the ink(?) has run from water spotting. See the time track at 11 & 12 and the inner ring at 3:30, 4:45 & 7. Still all in all very nice for 175 years old!
There is a small wear point on the right side panel shown below. It appears very old. about 2" long just above the center stile in the door. I hope the arrow comes through showing where to look. You can also see the refelction of the swirls in the original upper glass with original putty as they show on the backboard.
Here is the clock without the dial. The movement looks very good here and the paper is intact with some wear from the pendulum and weights. I am not sure if the weights and pendulum bob are original or not. I'll show those in a future post if requested.
The movement front plate is excellent. Only note here is the crutch wire is badly bent and twisted up. Probably salvagable with care. Old suspension spring maybe could be salvaged if someone really wanted to.
Upon opening the movement, the only issue I found is the obvious repair to the motion work idler. All other wheels are in as near perfect shape as they can be.
The keyhole inlay is also missing, but at least it appears to be a clean separation without damage to the recess. I have not tried too hard, but I have not gotten the door lock to work yet.
Not shown is the left column has a couple small pieces missing from the upper most ring. The right side ring appears to be complete and can be seen in the missing pediment return photo.
Please look at all the last posts of today to see all the pictures. I appreciate any feedback on asking price anyone can give me. You can also contact me at weeksclockrepair@yahoo.com
An online price quide shows one that sold in 2003 for $850 with reproduction finials and a restore lower tablet. In 2000 a similar unrestored clock sold for $1200 and in May 2004, a nicely restored clock with original finials brought $2600. There's a pretty big variation on this clock. I'd be curious what other people think?
Hello J. Bruce In the photo of the broken rosette, I see a lot of cross grain scratches. Same thing in the pic of the lower glass, feet and skirt. In the repair area just left of center. To me its a refinished clock. I don't see the fine crazing and gatoring of an original finish. Its hard to tell from any of the other pics but I would take this into account. JMO
Regards Gary
Posts: 141 | Location: Northwest Ohio in the USA | Registered: October 02, 2003
It may possibly have been refinished at some time, but long ago. The finish is slightly crazed or aligatored (about like 400 grit sandpaper) and I see the scratches you mention. It was not obvious that the case had been refinished (stripper runs, etc.) so if it was redone, it was a pretty good job. The glass is held by what I believe to be original putty. It was stained over as you would expect from an original. The glass is very old with the swirls and bubbles you would expect and stripping would have loosened the putty requiring its replacement.
I have not studied the case extremely thoroughly but will do so soon and post any results.
I would like to get this running soon to prove it out. I can put in new weight cords easily enough. It is the crutch that concerns me. I don't want to break it if I can avoid doing so.
Anyone think it is safe to attempt to straighten the severely bent crutch without breakage? Should I make an effort to soften it in the area where the work needs to be done.
It has been running nicely for about a week now. I'll be bringing it to North Coast if anyone is interested in getting a real piece of Americana. Call my cell if you want to see it 517-974-5563 and we'll arrange a meeting.
