Internet Horology Club 185
Gruen Guild Carre

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January 19, 2006, 23:36
Ronda Davidson
Gruen Guild Carre
I chanced across this today and bought it because I thought it was very pretty and unique. Then I wondered: Is it unique? Anyone know anything about it?





January 20, 2006, 02:13
Cary Hurt
Ronda,

What you have is a very nice Gruen Carré pocket/purse watch. They were marketed from 1930 till 1935 or so. Usually equipped with the 10 1/2 ligne 315 series movements, although I've seen others. Late in the series there were two sizes offered, one a little larger, I assume to appeal to men. The advertising text in a 1931 ad does state that it was "...the utterly new watch for men and women." The "Guild" marking on your dial probably indicates earlier production.

These were contemporary to the original Movado "Ermeto" watches, and similar designs from other makers. They are a great embodiment of the application of Art Deco to watch design, as the square/diamond shape was well suited to the geometric patterns prevalent in that period of the deco movement. I really like the deco treatment on the cover of yours. The opening slide button might have been replaced, as it seems a bit large for the design. The winding crown is the original though, as the distinctive shape was another element in the overall shape of the watch. It's pointed top allows the completion of the square corner when viewed from the front.

When these were originally offered, they were listed at prices ranging from $55 to $75, with covers in gold, silver, enamel, and leather. By the later years, the price range had stretched from $27.50 to $125, reflecting the addition of aluminum and platinum to the cover materials.

While it's not quite "unique", they are quite rare, and I think you've scored quite a prize. They were apparently not a commercial success, as they have never been plentiful. They didn't last long in Gruen advertising either. Just do an eBay search and see how rarely they appear. Oddly, many of the surviving ones seem to come from the UK.

Enjoy your new treasure, it's a good one!

Cary
January 20, 2006, 02:40
Cary Hurt
Ronda,

Here is a scanned page (via Bruce Shawkey) from a 1931 Gruen dealer's catalog showing various styles. There were dozens of designs offered during the brief life of the Carré.

Regards,

Cary

I'll try to upload a link to a full sized image so that you can read the text.


January 20, 2006, 08:32
Ronda Davidson
Thank you for the information, Cary. It was an impulse purchase. I usually collect ladies Deco enameled watches, but it was calling my name! I did an EBay search yesterday, but (as you might suspect) did not find others. I think I will keep my eye out for additional examples, though.
January 20, 2006, 10:30
Barbara Barnes
Hi Ronda,

N*I*C*E! And almost too cool for words. Cool

I've not seen the Gruen purse watch and wondered if any were still in existence. Sounds as though following your intuition (or impulse) on this purchase was a good thing!

Here's a link to Paul Schliesser's site about the Gruen Carré (scroll down a tad).

Enjoy!

Barbara

Wink
January 20, 2006, 18:38
Cary Hurt
Ronda, and all,

I've uploaded the full sized page, which you can see and read by clicking here.
Regards,

Cary
January 20, 2006, 21:35
Ronda Davidson
Thanks to Cary and Barbara for all your help and information. I'm pleased with my find -- and, even better, the seller only asked $120 for it, which I think was a bargain!

Ronda
January 21, 2006, 00:12
Cary Hurt
Ronda,

That does make it even better. When these do show up on eBay, they typically go for two to four times your cost. The last one I saw at a Regional was priced over $400. The enamel ones go for the greatest premiums, although I can't speak to what the gold or platinum ones might bring, as I've never actually seen one in a precious metal case. All I've seen were either nickel, gold-filled, silver, enamel or leather covered, like yours. Your leather cover appears to be in pretty good shape, and the slight damage could be repaired, although I don't think it would greatly enhance the value, and if it were mine I'd leave it be.

And for what it's worth, if I'd seen it at that price, I'd have bought it too.

Regards,

Cary
January 21, 2006, 00:46
Ronda Davidson
Cary -- Thanks for the great information! I actually chanced upon this watch in an online antique store after doing a Google search for "Gruen Guild enamel." I was really checking to see if any ladies Deco watches popped up, but the Carre popped up instead. Here is the sellers' description:

Art Deco Gruen Guild Carre. Case is rust enamel over 14K yellow gold. Deco decorations. Gruen Guild with Swiss movement. Case of watch is marked Carre, 14k gold. Some wear in the enamel on the case. Closed 1 18" x 1". Open: 2 1/8" wide, 1 1/4" tall. c. 1920.

When it arrives, I'll let you know if the description is correct as to it being 14K, enamel or leather, etc. And thanks again, you have been a wealth of information!
January 21, 2006, 02:33
Cary Hurt
Ronda,

I'll look forward to seeing details. Usually the enamel are over what Gruen called "Reinforced Gold", actually a high grade gold-filled material. When you get it, the case back will pop off like a traditional watch, so you should be able to check the inside for info regarding case metal and movement caliber. I guess, on closer look, that this one is enamel. I had assumed red leather from the images. The enamel can also be repaired by a skilled jeweler, and might be worth pursuing.

Cary
January 23, 2006, 01:12
Ronda Davidson
Yikes! As luck would have it, a Gruen Carre just came up on EBay. See auction no.: 5080364763. I'm shocked at the price. Also, it appears the slide button on mine is original because it looks the same. I wish I could add this EBay example to my collection. But it won't be happening at that price!
January 23, 2006, 02:10
Cary Hurt
Wow... I'll grant that's a nice one, but for the difference, I bet you could have your enamel redone to be just as nice. I'd bet also that this means that yours will be solid 14K as well. Just means that you've done that much better. And you're right about the slide button...notice in the auction that his crown has been replaced with a low-domed model, instead of the original pointed design present on yours. Can hardly wait to hear your report on it's arrival...

Cary
January 29, 2006, 02:01
Cary Hurt
Ronda,

That's great news. I'm glad that it turned out so well. I notice that the one on eBay has received a bid, so at least someone thinks they are quite worthwhile. Send me a PM to discuss repair.

Regards,

Cary