For research purposes I am seeking serial numbers from the Illinois grade 207 man's wristwatch movement (12/0 rectangular). I am specifically trying to document production from the production run 5,402,001-5,406,000 and see if the entire run was produced.

I am also interested to learn if any Hamilton 401 movements (modeled after the Illinois 207) have a serial number under the dial that is different from the "Hxxxxx" serial number on the back.

Please post here or contact me privately with any serial numbers you can contribute.

Thanks!

I have a 207 movement #5402392.
-Cort

Thanks, Cort. That is exactly the information I was looking for. Unfortunately it is going to require some modification of my thoughts on some Hamilton serial numbers.

Let me explain what this is all about. It stems from my research into the Hamilton grade 400. As most people know, this model was derived from the Illinois "Illini" model with the 5-tooth DeLong click. The first 800 Hamilton movements have a Hamilton serial number on the barrel bridge, ranging from H1001 to H1800. These were converted from already finished, but unsold Illini movements and they still retain the original Illinois serial number under the dial. Examples that I have been able to document show that they were made from movements from both production runs of the gr.528 - 3,869,xxx and 4,018,xxx. The movements used appear to be randomly selected and the Illinois serial number bears no relation to the visible Hamilton number.

The next group of Hamilton grade 400 movements were made up "fresh" and bear Hamilton serial numbers H2001 to H3500 on the barrel bridge. The few examples that I have been able to "explore" have a 7-digit serial number under the dial with the last four digits matching the Hamilton number. The under-dial number is 5,40x,xxx. To my knowledge, Hamilton never had a 5-million serial number so I was working on the theory that this is an Illinois number (since these were made at the Illinos factory). The Illinois records, however, show that this serial number range was assigned to the grade 207 wristwatch. I had hoped to find that the block from 5,402,001 to 5,403,500 was unused among the wristwatches and thus could be where the grade 400 came from. The rest of the run (5,403,501 to 5,406,000) could be grade 207 as shown. Lo and behold, the first example reported (Cort's) seems to blow this idea out of the water. So, I have to wonder, were the 5-million numbers actually unrecognized Hamilton numbers? Are there grade 400 movements carrying identical hidden numbers to some of the grade 207 movements? Or did they use some numbers for the 207 and some for the 400? I am going to have to collect a lot more data to work this one out.

Anyone, please, if you have Illinois 207 (wristwatch) movements from the above serial range, or Hamilton 400 (pocketwatch) movements, even parts movements, please pass the serial numbers along to me. I will update this post as information develops.

Thanks!

I have an Illinois 207 number 5439679, and an Illinois "Larchmont" in an unusual (very late ?)Keystone rgp case, with a 401 movement number H53453.

But where does Hamilton "400 (pocketwatch)" movements come into this ? I have never heard of a Hamilton p/w numbered 400,(but I'm not a p/w expert), the 401 being a 207 clone with 2 extra jewels.

Dan

Dan - the Hamilton grade 400 pocketwatch was not an original Hamilton product. When Hamilton purchased Illinois they recognized the appeal of Illinois' extra-thin model such as the "Illini". They converted the Illinois design and assigned it the Hamilton grade 400. This picture shows a grade 400 movement with the serial number H2485 visible on top. Under the dial it carries the number 5402485. The right hand movement shows the Illinois grade that was part of the basis for the Hamilton movement. Although this Illinois is a grade 538 rather than the slightly smaller 528, I show it because it has the unusual application of the whiplash regulator that was not used on most of the Illini movements.

Jerry,

Are you still collecting this information? If so, I have a few to post.

Regards,

Ok, here goes:

Hamilton 401 H52862
Illinois 207 5320618
Illinois 207 5344444 (fun #)
Illinois 207 5361896
Illinois 207 5409033
Illinois 207 5543211 (fun #)

I have at least 2 more (perhaps 3?) 207 movements that I don't have handy. I'll try to post these numbers in the next week or 2. Interesting, the first 3 207s have a different damaskeening pattern than the last 2. The pattern on the last 2 (presumably later) movements is rather spectacular! I'll try to post a photo.

Regards,

I have two:

Illinois 207: 5338450

Hamilton 401: H53605