As primarily a pocketwatch collector I have not explored the issues of originality in wristwatches very much up until now. For instance, I have the following Waltham white gold-filled cushion wristwatch with a Riverside movement. The case is by Wadsworth. As near as I can tell this case style became popular in the latest 'teens to early twenties (at least for Waltham). However, the serial number on the movement (18-millions) would date it closer to 1912. I had always assumed it was an original combination without giving it a lot of thought. But now wonder if this movement, in fact, sat in factory inventory for several years before being cased at Waltham or if it might be a later casing of an old movement by a jeweler. I have a couple other Waltham cushion wristwatches that I am sure are all original with movements in the 22 and 23-millions. In its favor, there was only one more run of Riverside 6/0 hunting movements after this one (19-millions), so perhaps the company had to dig into old unsold inventory for a higher-grade wristwatch?

Am I correct that, unlike pocketwatches, wristwatches during this era were almost always sold by the manufacturer as complete watches? There are many older pendant movements, particularly in 0-size, that have more obviously been cased much later in generic gold-plated or base metal cases, or have had lugs added to a pendant watch. I tend to take as a basis that American wristwatches began around 1912 (based on Waltham literature) and men's wristwatches only started to appear in quantity after WWI. (Am I on solid ground on this assumption?) If the movement is from much before this period I judge that it was intended for a pendant case and a wristwatch configuration is not likely to be original. So, do you agree? And how do you judge the closer matches like my cushion?

Jerry i dont know if i could answer any of your questions but i do have a add from 1925-1926 that shows a very simalr watch to the one you have ..

I have one in a wadsworth 14k 3 piece case with a sapphire movement which dates to 1925 and looks to be the same one pictured in the add.

2

3

hallmark inside the case

Looks just like model "712" from the ad. I think we have a winner here!

Frank "407" Kusumoto

Looks like the one Jerry has is the same case as in the add i posted makes me wonder if maybe waltham used this same style of case on the earlier movements also..maybe we can get some other folks to post up examples of the early Waltham wriswatches that would help answer Jerry,s questions..Here is a another waltham from 1927-28 this one has the ruby movement but still not as early as Jerry,s..

I have even less information to go on than Jerry has to work with, so I ask, can someone that is more knowledgable about wristwatches provide me with any relevant information? This wristwach movement (0s or 29.62 mm) was made by Elgin; its serial number (5958546) places the movement's manufacture in 1894. In the Elgin database, the movement is listed as a model 130 intended to be housed in a hunter case. I obtained the watch as a wristwatch housed in a three piece cushion shaped case (purportedly of German silver). The sole case manufacture mark is the word "scepter". The case appears to be of later manufacture, but is made specifically for this movement. In other words not an obvious recase. Having a front bezel, a frame, and a separate back piece, the case does resemble a pocket watch case, but with integrated strap lugs.

Although wristwatches had been around for a while, this piece has a transitional appearance about it which is underscored by its nicely painted porcelain face. I do not question that a movement of this age started life in another case, but early conversion watches that I have seen have just had wire lugs soldered to the original pocket watch case - the nicety of a specifically designed wrist case is lacking. Consequently, I refer to it as a 'late conversion watch', but I have not the foggiest notion if this is correct.

Mark, In the 1920's and 30's, Jewelers were set up to recase (and or case) small pocket watch movements into wristwatch cases. Jobbers sold cases with matching dials and hands for the different watch companies. The major watch companies even authorized their dealers to do this and supplied the cases, dials and hand for a remake. If it was a jobber doing the work the dial would say "Elgin Movement", Waltham Movement, etc. If it was a dealer, the dial would just say Elgin, Waltham, etc. There were many older 0S and smaller movements recased during this period. This info came from the father of my watchmaker friend who was an Elgin dealer in the 1920's and 30's.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. That is some really good information that is hard to come by otherwise. I had no idea that the watch companies would supply case, dial and hands to refit the older movements.

Tom;
Thanks a lot! I never realized that such an extensive retro-fit program was organized. Presumably, looking at the ad that Samie scanned, this retro-fit work was an 'extra touch' that one's local jeweler could offer to clients. Information such as this is good to have - again thanks.

I wonder how long jewelers or jobbers recased the 0 size movements i have 3 nos cases made by star watch co. gold filled bezel and stainless back,s that still have the hang tags which are dated 3-41 ...any standard size 0 size movement will fit these..

here is nos dial for the 0 size waltham hunting case movement

here is a example of a open face 0 size waltham open face movement that dates to 1914 in a wristwatch case i belive this is a later recase


hope to get it going soon.

Samie;
The Star case that you have pictured is especially intriguing. The case on my watch has the sole marking of "scepter" and I have only encountered that name before on a 12s gold-filled pocket watch case that was marked Star Watch Case Co. Perhaps it is only a coincidence, but it does 'tickle' one's curiosity.