Anyone know much about these movements?

All I could find is serial numbers from 2,000,001 - 2,001,700 in the first run (1912) then 2,002,401-2,002,800 in the second.

That would make total production around 2,100.

I was wondering what these were primarily used for and if there are any records. I haven't seen much of anything on this movement. My only real resources are websites and the price guide.

Why the second short run of 400? It is a beautiful movement with raised gold jewel settings and very nice damaskeening.

Thanks for any info.

Adam

Adam

I can share with the only information i have. It has come from the April 06 Bulletin regarding Hamilton 0-size wristwatches written by Will Roseman and Bryan Girouard.

the 988 is a 6/0 movement designed for use by Hamilton in womens pendant watches. The article mentions Hamilton considering using this movement but was ultimately decided it was too small and feminine for a mans watch and probably too expensive for production. Especially , entering a new market like men's wristwaches. The first mans watch was nice sized, maybe sized so to provide some similarities to a pocketwatch?

Thats about it from the article , i am sure Bryan and Will will add more info later.

Can you post a picture

Gary,

Thanks for the info. I will post a picture as soon as possible. The dial is being re-finished. Sure looks all original and case has an unusual marking on the inside back. I haven't seen another marking like it, but that doesn't mean much.

Adam

I am not up on this movement, but Lowell Halligan's history of Hamilton movements should have the scoop on the movement.

Don

Hi Adam:

The grade 988 was a 6/0-size 17-jewel movement originally designed to be used in women’s pendant watches. Hamilton experimented with the grade 988 in men's wristwatches for a very short time however it proved to be too small and was too expensive to produce – the 988 utilized top of the line damascening as well as raised gold settings. It is without doubt, one of Hamilton's most attractive men's movements.

It was decided that the 988 would not work for men's watches as winding the watch at 12:00 o’clock was deemed too awkward for a strap watch. In addition, its size was considered to be somewhat feminine – especially for the introduction of a men’s wristwatch.

The short run of 400 were 988's that were finished as 986's although one can easily tell the differnce between the two.

I hope that has been helpful.

Regards,

Will

Will,

Thank you for the information. The more I am reading about this movement, the more I am getting confused. With the past week I have had, it doesn't take much to throw me off.

From the information I have received from everyone I am about 90% sure this watch is authentic. I do have a couple more questions for you though.

In the watches that Hamilton tested the movement in for the mens watches, did they wind at 12? The only reason I ask is because the cushion watch I have with the 988 movement winds at 3.

Do you happen to have any serial number ranges or approx. date when Hamilton tested these for mens watches?

Lastly, were the 988 Movements marked 988? I only aqsk because mine is not, but all of the advertisements I have seen from Hamilton show the movement marked 988.

Thanks in advance and sorry for all of the questions.

Adam

Hi Adam:

Very, very few examples of the 988 movements were utilized in men's wristwatches although I know of one specimen that may appear to be authentic (please note that I have only seen pictures of the watch and have not had the opportunity to see it in person - interestingly, the watch utilizes the very first 988 made).

If you have a picture of your watch that you can post, that could help us determine if the watch is correct or not. In searching for authenticity, a good point to start is by examining the crown - the 988's were "negative set" which means that the stem is made from two pieces which fit together, not one piece as the 986 and 986A were. This means that wristwatches cannibalized from later Cushion cases using the 988 would likely have to be jury-rigged to make it a usable wristwatch due to the “negative set” aspect of the movement. Also, it would be helpful to know what the serial number on the back inside cover of your Cushion is. A late Cushion serial number might help to discount early usage of the watch but again, serial numbers, although generally consecutive, were not always so.

Although it is not known for certain, the several watches that were experimented with would likely have wound at 3:00 and not had a sub-second hand but since the records are silent regarding same, one can never know with certainty.

All authentic examples would have been made in 1917, just prior to the release of the 983 O-sized men's wristwatch. In this case, finding an example with a serial number that dates from that time might be helpful but such evidence would be circumstantial at best. Hamilton could very well have used older movements for prototypes (as per the example I state above) or altered existing 988’s for usage. As with most things Hamilton, one can never know for sure and you certainly can’t discount and or affirm something based on circumstantial criteria alone – especially a historical example such as we are discussing.

There are no serial numbers indicating which watches are prototypes and which were not - sorry.

And finally, I also have an unmarked 988 but it does have a serial number. That aside, what is the serial number of your watch, both case and movement?

Regards,

Will

Will,

Thanks again for all of the information. I will post pics asap, but it will prob be a week or so.

The Movement is 2,000,050

This is the information I recently received from Don regarding the first run of movements.

20000001-2001000 is a 988, 6/0 size, ¼ plate, 17J that went to the finishing department on 9/10/12 and 4/4/14.

The batch was broken into two sub-batches. This tells me it was not a fast moving movement and could sit in the Finishing Department for years.


Case number is 324, 317

The case is marked Hamilton Watch Co. Lancaster Pa.

Also, The stem is what I have always called a stem and sleeve. I am not sure if that is what you mean by the negative set or not.

The dial is white with bold black numerals. There is no second hand.

Adam

" --- the 988's were "negative set"

So what is this - since it clearly is indeed negative set ? - but marked 986.

Dan.

Dan, That would be a negative set 986 I presume and it appears they were the earliest 986s and didn't last too long.

After reading this thread I scurried off to my Hamilton movements box to see if I might have one of those 988s. No luck there but I did find I had one matching your 986. Mine is #2004072. I am puzzled as to the intent of the hole which is just below the the crown wheel(visible in your picture). By coincidense I was working on a 986 this morning so the material was at hand. I could see several evolutionary modifications that took place as the 986 became 987. From the description above I gather that the shift from 988 to 986 was a similar evolution.

A couple of the things I noticed include, the layout of the 986-A is much more comparable to the 987 than the 986, also, at some point, the jewel settings on the 986 balance cock evolved from a raised friction type to a flat setting held by two screws. Another style had the cap jewel screwed down from the under side of the cock etc.. Lots of variables and tweaking...
-Cort

I just noticed John Johnson's 986 thread which features another of these early ones. The hole I was curious about is filled with a blue screw. Is this a service screw to secure the setting or a mainspring release or..?
Cort

That "hole" in my 986 is a parallel sided unthreaded hole which goes right thru the top plate - but does not appear to have any function. The other end is above part of the negative set mechanism.

A recently sold 988 shows the same screw described by Cort.



Dan.

I have not worked on this movement, but the blue screws in all Hamiltons that I have worked on were for securing the wind/set mechansim when working on the movement.

Don

Dan, That 986 is not only unusual, it is the prettiest one I've ever seen. I don't have my reference material here at home but, if that example is from the first run,and they all look like that, they must be a very desirable find. The curves on the bridge plate allude to the faux separate bridge design of the next runs. I also like the gilt print and the "adjusted" mark.Last, the jewel setting appear to be gold in the photo whereas I've only seen them in brass.

When I looked at the serial number list it appeared that the first run of 986 was rather small, a few hundred perhaps(test the waters perhaps). The second run was tens of thousands and the last was 90,000? Huge!
Hamilton certainly did things differently.

Don, I think the blue screw was a service screw too. That the hole was present but the screw missing on early (second run) ones might indicate Hamilton ditched them. A service screw isn't something one removes during cleaning so I can't explain why these would be missing from otherwise complete movements.
-Cort

Please look close - it is a 988 !

Dan

Doh!
-Cort

Finally.....here are some pictures of the watch I picked up with the 988 movement in it.

Adam

Movement

MOVEMENT 1

CASE MARKINGS

Adam,
Wonderful watch! Serial number two million and fifty seems like it should be significant but I'm not sure why. Some numbers just seem more pivotal than others.
-Cort

I have just now managed to buy one of these 988 movements --- and if any members can help find me a case like Adam's I'd love to hear from them.

The case has to be 6/0 size for a negative set movement.