This watch, movement copied off an old Venus design, cost less than $100. Sapphire crystal, stainless steel. It may certainly be a piece of manure and break next week but the technical accomplishment is astounding. If someone told me five years ago that the Chinese would be making Venus calibre knock-offs I would have laughed, but here it is, less than a Franklin.

Frank,

why should you be surprised, this kind of thing is happening with an enormous number of items we see every day. If you don't worry about Patents or Manufacturing rights restrictions "remaking/copying" the watch in question, is a just piece of cake.

Laser scan the parts and assemblies from an original Venus movement into a digital data base which allows you to modify/manipulate and make the changes you may desire. From there you can take your pick of how you want to make it. (a) High volume, progressive high speed dies, automated assembly tooling & screw machines,etc. etc., or (b) Low volume, CNC, EDM or Photo etched parts, screw machined parts and hand assembly.

The Chinese are already making tourbillons at a fraction of the cost of the ones being made by high quality Swiss companies. Give it a few short years ( I'd guess less than five ) and you'll be seeing high quality movements and watches of all types coming from China. Who knows maybe even good pocket watches.

NOTE:- Why do I predict this, very simply, it's happening with every other type of industry and product you can imagine, so why not the watch industry. All it's going to take is "Branding & Upmarket Marketing", making the stuff with the technologies which are available today is the easy part.

Dave,

I certainly agree with everything you've said to one degree or another. l personally found it particularly surprising that the Venus 175 would be copied... not an easy one to copy. There have been several Valjoux 775x knock-offs that are easily identifiable as knock-offs with the normal extremely poor finishes. I confess I bought a few for less than $75 just for parts movements. These Venus movements are not "quite" finished to be high-end but they are finished better than the majority of the movements that were made in the 50's. Also, astoundingly enough, the parts are interchangeable with the old movements! The knock-off 775x movements were made so badly that they always need some tweaking to be suitable. Just some musings on my part and I'm very happy and fascinated to read the technical details that you added to the conversation. Hope to see you again next year in "Tejas".

Best,

Frank "407" Kusumoto

The Chinese have the capability to produce very high quality stuff. They make a navigation sextant that is equal to the very best German and Japanese models at a fraction of the price. The Chinese sextant, Celestaire Astro, has extraordinary optics and workmanship equal to the top of the line with traditional high end manufactures. It's a shame that we don't manufacture much anymore in this country. The watch above at under $100 is mind boggling. How can they do it so cheaply? No unions, EPA, and frivoulous litigation worries I suspect.

For comparison, a genuine Venus 175



Larry

Larry,

this looks like a brand new watch, is it?
Is Minerva back in business, they're not listed in the 2005 Wristwatch Annual.

In doing some checking I find that Minerva was sold in the year 2000 to an Italian conglomorate which makes Pythagore & Palladio Models. It would also appear they may have introduced the Minerva watch you show.

The case for sure is new, they certainly didn't have these screw down view backs with laser engraved details around the circumference on the original ones.

Yes Dave, they're modern. Minerva obtained some of the original Venus movements and installed them in new watches. It was supposed to be a run of 300 as indicated on the case, but they were only able ot get 98. They were produced in 1999. The Frey family sold the business to an Italian corp. They are selling very expensive watches now mostly in Europe, I think.

Larry

As far as Asian companies increasing in technical expertise I think it is a given. After all they make some nice dishes and porcelain items.
Overcoming the stigma of the "Made in China" though will be tough for a while until they firmly establish quality in brands. The Swiss did not do it overnight, it took several generations.

I think if Americans started paying a little more for products made in countries (or American made period)where workers made more than 32 cents an hour we would all benefit.

David,

"Made in China" might have some stigma now... I remember a Disney movie that had a song called "Made in Japan". The stigma can easily be overcome in 15-20 years if not sooner. Still not sure if we're back on regular time or still on internet time.

Best,

Frank

I think you will find the finish on chinese pieces is dependent on the application and price points. If they are making pieces for a higher end market the finish is quite a bit better, believe me

Sure, price point. But how can you make a good copy of an old Venus movement and sell it for less than $100? My picture taking abilities are horrible. If I sent this watch to Lindell and had him take pics of it I could sell it for over $400 easily! In fact, these movements may become popular in Switzerland, bizarrely, since ETA is discontinuing the Valjoux 7760, the last of the mass-produced hand-wind chronographs.

Best,

Frank "407" Kusumoto

Nothing surprising about the improving quality of China's watches. A large percentage of the Swiss made watches have dials and cases made in Asia anyway.