I purchased this watch because it looked a little unusual in the pictures and after receiving it I became even more puzzled. I have owned or seen several hundred 12 size Illinois watches but this one has got me. First of all, it has a pop out dial as opposed to the dials that are held down by screws and secondly, it is so thin. It also has a motor barrel and what looks like pressed jewels. There is a thread about "thin" 12 size movements but this doesn't quite look like any of them. Can any of the experts out there tell me anything about this most unusual "Marquis"
Thank you,
Steve

You posted this same topic here The Illinois Marquis. What did you want to know about it?

Frank,
Yes I had posted a question regarding the dial removal in the repair thread and upon the suggestion of using Rodico I got some and it did help clean the dial up some. I had not tried your recipe yet and I was going to pick up some "fun tack" (?) and try mixing it up. My question was regarding the movement and its grade, production numbers, and if it is indeed a thin model. There is a thread above this one that discusses the thin models but this didn't quite look the same. Were there other variations of the thin models other that those listed? The serial number on this movement is much higher than the ones that were listed on the thread. Is the "pop out" dial typical of all thin models?
Thanks,
Steve

Steve
Your watch is the 17j thin model grade 525 Marquis model--2,450 serial numbers were reserved. 50 of these watches were made out of aluminium for Alcoa and command over $2,000. There is also the more common Grade 525 Marquis Autocrat. All were originally factory cased.

The Marquis typically came with pressed jewels while the Marquis Autocrat has gold cups to hold the jewels.
The plate layout of the Marquis is very similar to the 19j thin model Abe Lincoln.

Bob

Bob,
Thanks so much. You have been very helpful and I appreciate it. It is very unique and I think I will hold onto it for awhile. It runs great.
Thanks again,
Steve

Steve - Ah, now I understand your question. Robert Schussel summed it up pretty well. Here's a picture of the Marquis Autocrat to compare with the Marquis. They're basically the same watch but with some subtle and interesting differences.

After all this talk about the Marquis and Illinois 12s watches I recalled several conversations I've had with a collector who specializes in these watches. I specialize in South Bends but I also have a certain fondness of the 12s watches from other companies.

Illinois did a ton of variations with these 12s watches. The different names, models, damaskeening patterns and a good number of private label runs makes the Illinois 12s a very interesting area to concentrate on. Some might say it's an under appreciated area of watch collecting. It's a nice niche in which you can collect a lot of interesting watches at a reasonable price. Here's a picture of another 12s Illinois, just for fun (The "Diplomat").

Frank and Bob,
Thanks so much for your contributions to the subject of 12 size thin models. It is nice to see the comparison of the two models of the same grade. I presume the 2450 numbers were for the "Marquis" model only and did not include the "Autocrat" version within this group. In either case, both were an intersting timepiece and I sure would like to know where Bob gets all this information. I would like to find an Illinois "Encyclopedia" if they are out there.
Thanks again,
Steve

Your Marquis is on Pg. 162. You might want to get one of these books.

The book averages $100.00 when available.

Here is what it says about the Grade "525" on page 162...



(525) ILLINOIS WATCH CO., SPRINGFIELD - THE MARQUIS AUTOCRAT - 17 JEWELS - MOTOR BARREL - ADJUSTED 3 POSITIONS

Adjusted to Temperature, 3 Positions, Isochronism - Ruby and Sapphire Jewels in raised gold settings, Gold Center Wheel - Patent Regulator - Broad Stripe Pattern, Damaskeened Nickel, black filled engraving - Double Roller - Various styles of etched or carved center metal dials. Cased and timed at the factory.

Ranges: 3869251 - 5007000 produced 1922-1929

33,250 of the Grade 525 were produced.

The Grade 525 is one of the (Illinois) Company's Private Label Grades. Frequently it was marked 'The Marquis' or 'Marquis Autocrat'. The movement is 'Extra Thin' and has a 'Double Roller' escapement although it is not so-marked. This (525) is a medium quality movement that was sold only as a cased watch. It was offered in a variety of 14K Solid Gold or Gold Filled cases.



According to Illinois records, Steve's 4184412 was from 1923 production.

Hope this information helps!

Lindell

Bob, Frank, and Lindell,
Thanks again for all your expert information in helping me better understand this model of Illinois watch. It's great having people with all this information available and so eager to help those of us that don't, but want to learn more about our hobby. I have found this website to be a fantastic help to me in understanding many facets of Illinois watch collecting. If anyone knows where I can find a copy of the above mentioned reference book or has one they want to sell, please contact me at middsmx@embarqmail.com. Once again, thanks all.

Steve

Steve
There is also an Illinois Database but I have heard second hand that there may be copyright issues.

As to developing knowledge ,read peoples posts, ask questions and look at Ebay. For 12 size watches Ebay auctions are a great way to learn about watches--you will see the good ,bad and the ugly. I have found several watches on Ebay that were either unknown or so rare that no one had any information about the Grade.

As to collecting 12 size Illinois private labels be a little careful. With a few exceptions such as Santa Fe,Ariston,Dependon,Interstate Chronometer,some Washington Watch Co,Benjamin Franklin etc who command a premium,the scaricity of most private labels does not influence their price--remember there is probably over 1,000 12 size Illinois private labels.

Bob