I am dedicating this to Lindell that has convinced me to show the progression of the Grade 187 Illinois Markings.

Please email photos of any 187 Grade watches that you own to Eugene Buffard so I can add them to this Data Base


Much of this information in this topic is from Bill Meggers on Page 136-137 of his " Illinois Watch Co" Book.

Quote from Page 45.

"The 16 size... "thin models" designated as Model 4 and 5 were introduced in 1896. The highest grades in this groupe are the "Sangamo" and the number Grades "179", " 187" and "189"... The Models 4 and 5 where designed by Fred I. Getty and are THE ONLY AMERICAN WATCHES TO BE MADE WITH THE SINGLE EXPOSED WINDING WHEEL, many collectors consider them to be the most artistically designed watches ever made"



1st Variant # 1474901 is from a run of 300.

Made 1899, Open Face, Unmarked 6 Positions.

#7 run was # 1,474,701 - 1,475,000

2nd Variant

They dropped the words Safety Pinion.

# 1542878, is from a Run of

It is a Hunter Watch.


Made 1900, Hunter, Unmarked Adjusted 6 Positions,


Run #14 - 1,542,801 - 1,542,900

3rd Variant

They added Double Roller, Adjusted 5 Position Isochronism.

It is also marked 187.

# 1569859 is from a run of 200. Hunter Movement.

Run 16 1,569,801 thru 1,567,000

4th DR Variant

Is the same as the 3rd except not marked 187.

# 1572946 is from a run of 400.

Made in 1901, Open face,


Run #18 was 1,572,701 - 1,573,100

5th Variant

Illinois Watch Co. Was added under the balance wheel.
# 2225791 is from a run of 200.

This is the lowest serial # where the Winding Pinion was bushed from the factory. SO FAR

Made 1910, Open face, 5 Positions,


Run #22 from 2,225,601 - 2,225,800

6th Variant

# 2487525 is from a run of 500

This one is the same as the 5th except the Font of the Words, Temperature 5 Position Ischronism

Font of 187.

This is my watch.

Run #29 is 2,487,101 - 2,487,600

7th Variant

This run is marked the same as the 3rd variant, Except it was factory bushed on winding pinion.

# 2280359 is from a run of 100 watches



Made 1910, Open Face, 5 Positions.


Run #24 - 2,280,301 - 2,280,400.

8th Variant

There are 2 so far that are marked this way.

# 2,245,532 is from a run of 100.

# 2,245,588 is from a run 100.

Hunter movement.

Run #23 - 2,245,501 - 2,245,600.

VARIANT 2 DR

This variant is the same as #2 but is also marked Double Roller. #1516846

Lets name it 2-DR
For Double roller.

It is quite interesting because it is marked Double Roller in run #12

VARIANT 4

Same as variant 4 DR but is NOT marked Double Roller

Here is another variant. Our own Peter the fonts are on a curve. Not straight like others variants.

It is closest to varient #9. We will call this

Varient 9A

Variant 9

This a very unusual variant. It is only marked position. No 5 or 6

***MARKED 6 POSITION***

1,572,592 This from a run of 100 which is marked 6 Position. 1,572,501- 1,572,600.

How many where marked this way? Still compiling Data. With your HELP.

1627501 Adjusted 5 Position Double Roller USA Ariston Open Face

This a private Label 187 I don't even know how to give it a variant. It fits in to the 3rd Variant Plus Ariston USA and the Emblem above USA

Variants where Assigned for Connivence NOT ORDER MADE

HUNTER MOVEMENTS
#___________Varient_______Hunters--------RUN
1370858_______1-V__________H____EBAY—————1
1370882_______1-V__________H____Ebay———-—1 1455748_______1st__________H____Ebay------6
1475977_______1st__________H____EBAY------8
1478912_______1st__________H____eBay------9
1516846_______2-DR_________H___eBay-----12
1542878_______2nd__________H____ERB------14
1542881_______2nd__________H____Internet 14
1569829_______2nd__________H____Internet-16
1569859_______3____________H____Internet-16
1569909 *** marked 6 position*** _H__Internet_16
*
1569951_*** marked 6 position ****_H____ERB-16 *
1570000_____Ariston________H____Paul T --16
1627501_____Ariston________H_____Internet-19
1659757_______2nd__________H____Internet-20
2118911_______5th__________H____Internet-21 *
2118980_______7th__________H____Internet-21
2245532_______8th__________H____Tom D----23
2245588_______8th__________H____Internet-23


OPEN FACE MOVEMENTS
1419485_______1st__________O__Internet---5
1435447_______1st__________O__Internet---5
1474790_______1st__________O__PK--------7
1474852_______1st__________O__Internet---7
1474901_______1st__________O__ERB--------7
1508828_______2nd__________O__Internet--11
1522805_______2nd__________O__Internet--13
1548564_______2nd__________O__Internet--15

1572592_ *** Marked 6 Position _O____Internet---17
1572593_*** Marked 6 Position_O_____ERB---17
1572594_ *** Marked 6 Position_O_____ERB---17
1572596_ ***marked 6 position***_O____ERB---17

1572714________4th__________O___Internet--18 *
1572839_______4DR__________O____Ebay-----18
1572852______Ariston________O___ERB------18
1572858______Ariston________O__Internet--18
1572862_______4DR___________O__Internet--18
1572876_______4DR __________O__Internet--18
1572946_______4DR __________O___ERB------18
2225688_______3rd__________O_____KM------22 *
2225791_______5th__________O____ERB------22
2280359_______7th__________O____ERB------24
2364254_______7th__________O____DA-------26
2395310_______9A___________O____Peter K--27
2395451_______9th__________O___Internet--27
2395406_______7th__________O___Internet--27
2395462_______7th__________O___Internet--27
2430475_______5th__________O___Internet--28
2487223_______5th__________O___Internet--29
2487233_______5th__________O___Internet--29
2487290_______5th__________O___Internet--29
2487347_______6th__________O___eBay------29
2487464_______6th__________O___TD--------29
2487525_______6th__________O____ERB------29

***Marked 6 Position***
1* means change to variant in middle of run

Variant 1V
1st run 187 are marked 17 jewel only. Not Ruby Jeweled. And the Research goes on.
In till we get Examples of all the runs of 187’s we may never know how many variance or are

I pulled the run #s from the Volume 2 Illinois Watch Encyclopedia.


1 - 1,370,801 - 1,370,900_H___4 - 100

2 - 1,393,201 - 1,393,300_H___4 - 100

3 - 1,419,101 - 1,419,200_H___4 - 100

4 - 1,419,401 - 1,419,500--O--5 - 100

5 - 1,435,401 - 1,435,500--O--5 - 100

6 - 1,455,701 - 1,455,900_H___4 - 200

7 - 1,474,701 - 1,475,000--O--5 - 300

8 - 1,475,901 - 1,476,000_H___4 - 100

9 - 1,478,901 - 1,479,000_H___4 - 100

10- 1,480,801 - 1,481,000--O--5 - 200

11- 1,508,801 - 1,509,000--O--5 - 200

12- 1,516,801 - 1,509,000_H___4 - 200

13- 1,522,701 - 1,522,900--O--5 - 200

14- 1,542,801 - 1,542,900_H___4 - 100

15- 1,548,501 - 1,548,900--O--5 - 400

16- 1,569,801 - 1,570,000_H___4 - 200

17- 1,569,801 - 1,570,000_O___5 - 200

18- 1,572,701 - 1,573,100_O___5 - 400

19- 1,627,501 - 1,627,510_H___4 - 10

20- 1,659,701 - 1,659,900_H___4 - 200

21_ 2,118,901 - 2,119,100_H___4 - 200

22- 2,225,601 - 2,225,800_O__ 5 - 200

23- 2,245,501 - 2,245,600_H __4 - 100

24- 2,280,301 - 2,280,400_O___5 - 100

25- 2,292,701 - 2,293,000_O___5 - 300

26- 2,364,201 - 2,364,300_O___5 - 100

27- 2,395,301 - 2,395,500_O__ 5 - 200

28- 2,430,201 - 2,430,550_O__ 5 - 350

29- 2,487,101 - 2,487,600_O___5 - 500

30- 2,493,501 - 2,493,600_H___4 - 100

Our own Paul just bought a 187 Ariston Hunter with serial # 1570000.

That was the last watch built from production run 16.

***6 Position***
I just bought this one. 1 of 100.

So far only 2 of 100 made marked 6 Position recorded.

1,572,593

5 position
ser.# 2225688

A private label dial.

I just purchased a Variant from our own Jon that has never been recorded. It is in Run 16 that is marked 6 Position. This is the same run that has some 2nd variant, 3rd variant, This marked 6 Position variant. and a Ariston that is marked 5 Position. The only other Marked 6 position that are know is in Run 17 and all 100 are suspected to be marked 6 Position.

Glad you are happy and the movement went to a good ILLINOIS home

Eugene -

Why the focus on the grade 187 Getty in particular, as opposed to the grade 175 or other Getty models?

kh

The grade 187 [Production # 5360] was a higher grade watch than the 175. [Production # over 42,000]

In my opinion they changed the markings to try to satisfy the RR Inspectors that where setting up different rules at the time these watches where being produced.


I am drawn to any gettys that are marked Ruby Jewel.

All Gettys that are marked RUBY Jewels where adjusted to position which qualify them to be RR grade and or approved.


Hence I am trying to give the grade 187 the recognition they deserve.

They where the poor mans RR watch at the time,

They proceed the 16sz Bunn that soon after they hit the market dominate it.

First serial # for for 187 Grade is 137801
The Last Serial # was 2493600

First serial # of 16sz Bunn was 2577400.

The very early Gettys had a problem with the Winding arbor that was latter bushed with steel.

Lowest 187 Getty with a Bushed Arbor is 2225791 variant 5. SO FAR

We will never know the demise of the getty.

But I would bet that this had something to do with it Winding Arbor defect. It has fewer parts which would of been cheeper to make.

But public opinion about a product that had problems is hard to shake.

I have much greater interest in the grade 178 250 Produced I own 2 of.

Or the grade 181 total production of 290,that I own 1 of.

I have grade 187 with S/N 1474790
and if you go to pocketwatchdatabase ther will be actual picture of my watch dial and movement. .

Peter your watch has been added Thank You!

Gene; I have 1,572,594 MARKED SIX POSITIONS AND 187
out of the Meggers collection...I'm considering selling it here.

Let me now before you do sell it. I am interested in it.

Eugene,
Add serial number 2487464 to the grade 187 inventory.
Tony

Tony what varient is it.

Eugene,
6th variant
Tony