Illinois Special 18s 21 Jewel

March 07, 2009, 13:38

Tom Brown

I received the watch I bought on Ebay today. It is from a run of Abe Lincoln 18s watches but this one was marked Illinois Watch Co. and Special. After removing the barrel bridge it has the same serial number on the back of the bridge.

The dial looks in very good condition with a couple of hairlines that I noticed in the photo but you can not see them with the naked eye.

What is your opinion of this watch, I can't find an example like it in any of my material. Do you think it would have been a private label as Lindell mentioned? I don't know if the dial is original or course but it is correct for that time period.

I look forward to hearing any comments, good or bad.

Tom

March 07, 2009, 13:39

Tom Brown

The movement number 2060778

March 07, 2009, 13:39

Tom Brown

The underneath of the barrel bridge.

March 07, 2009, 14:45

Lindell V. Riddle

Tom,

Watches like this one cause us to speculate about what the factory did and why they did it.

Your movement would really not be a private label as such unless in addition to "Special" on the movement it also had a private label dial. But due to the fact it is marked "Special" and has markings unlike the A. Lincolns it would have to be classified in the same way as a private label. Whether or not this "Special" movement originally came with a private label dial is something we may never know for certain.

It is very interesting because we know that blocks of numbers assigned to the "A. Lincoln Grade" were used for movements with other markings, your "Special" is such a movement. A movement marked "Special" as this one is would in many instances be ordered in the same manner as a private label would. The point of these was most often so that competing retail jewelers could have "different" looking watches.

Consider this scenario, you are a retailer and nearby is another retailer that also sells Illinois watches. You tell the factory representative you need something to point to, something to offer that would give you a selling edge. He offers you movements unlike those of your competitor, something with a different damaskeening pattern and a "Special" something you can point to that will show you have a "Special" watch to sell.

That would fit perfectly with the facts we find in the factory records showing that not all of the "A. Lincoln Grade" carry "A. Lincoln" markings, it is true of other grades including Bunns and Sangamos as well.

All we have is our theories, let's see what others say.

Lindell

March 07, 2009, 15:07

Jerry King

Nice watch Tom, and I expecially like that dial....very impressive and stylish....

Lindell's comments were very interesting as well....

Looks like you did very well for yourself....

Regards,
Jerry

March 07, 2009, 15:09

Tom Brown

Thanks Lindell, I wish the factory of former employees would have documented some of the reasoning behind what they did.

One other question, looking in Megger's Illinois Encyclopedia & also the Gold book I can't find a private label movement with that model of Abe Lincoln movement, do you know of any examples with photos.

Thanks
Tom

March 07, 2009, 15:39

Andrea Schiavi

Tom,
congratulations for your watch~~!! Here is the only picture i could find of a private Label with the same movement.I do know also some were marked "Pensylvania Special" but your is the only one i have personally seen like that.

Andrea

March 07, 2009, 16:26

Tom Brown

Thanks for the photo Andrea, I feel lucky to have found the watch & as usual they get the best of me wanting to know more.

Tom

March 13, 2009, 15:23

Tom Brown

Just a little more info I have found on this watch. Did find in Megger's Blue Book on page 255 very last item, he does mention an Able Lincoln model marked just like mine, but for a run of 16s Getty type movements. That one was from 1918 mine from 1908.

So for whatever reason I guess they made that type of marking twice.

April 12, 2011, 13:40

Roger Stephens

Came across this thread and have to add mine to it.Andrea posted a pic.of movt"made expressly for Wehmanen&Company"I too,have one like yours s/n2731699,17jewels,adj.3pos.two tone.Yours is 21jewels,adj.5pos.marked double roller,whereas,mine is not marked double roller.It was apleasure to see another similar to mine.Thanks Roger